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Open Thread

by BooMan
Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:36:45 PM EST

I think Obama should use the same whistle-stop train strategy he used in Pennsylvania during the general election. Maybe, take the train from St. Louis to San Francisco and make a bunch of stops along the way. He also should makes trips down the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers. Expand the map. And it looks like a trip or two to Alaska is a good idea, too.

Open Thread | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Open Thread (none / 1)

Excellent.
Added to all the other good reasons, it would make a good case for people to start looking at Amtrak again (course it would have to be a long look as it's never able to meet a schedule) - see America this year on vacation, hop a train not a plane.

by mainsailset on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:42:06 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Amtrak really sucks in the west. Takes FOREVER to get anywhere because the tracks are so bad. They can't exceed like 25 MPH. It's fine for freight, but that's it. Anyone who travels by train out here will be very disappointed. We really need to improve the rail system because it would be the best way to travel, but it sucks right now.

by RandyH on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:50:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Yeah, butbutbut it could someday be great again??? Anyway, each whistlestop would get their fill of him by the time pulled out of the station....

by mainsailset on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And expensive (none / 0)

A train ticket from LA to SF can cost me alone the price of flying last minute. The flight is a little over an hour long. The train ride is about 12 hours, but that doesn't include layovers. My ex-neighbor took the train to SF because he was going to take an Alaskan cruise. Turned out they had a 24 hour layover in some sleepy Central Valley town. He was lucky he managed to get hold of his travel agent and he got him a room at the hotel when he found out about the long layover. Others weren't so lucky.

His goal was to take the train from LA to SF spend the weekend in SF and then take the train on up to WA to get on his cruise. He didn't get to do that. He arrived in WA 10 minutes before the ship left. All due to Amtrak layovers or the legs where he had to get on the bus.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:09:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Makes me want to visit Colorado.

by BooMan on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:54:01 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I not only think that's a superb idea, I think it's essential. He needs to do the "Get to know me" tour that McCain never had a hope of pulling off effectively. That's where he can beat McCain every day and where he really shines. The big superstar rallies are good, but the country is a million spots on the map. He needs to hit all of them and leave a little piece of himself in every one.

by Sprocket77 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:06:06 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I wish he could do both. Some people are persuaded by the crowd itself at such events, others need to touch the flesh and look him in the eye.

I agree with the comments re rail in CA sucking, btw. I would take it more if it went more places I want to go, and more reliably..! I love trains in general. But Amtrack in CA still needs work.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Since I moved out here in '81 (none / 0)

I've been hearing about high speed rail across the desert. Imagine getting to Palm Springs in 45 minutes or Vegas in an hour. We have the room, we have the need, we have the money if we weren't lacking the political will. Nobody wants to be the first person to build it and have it flop. Cynics. Why not be the first person to build it and make a bajillion dollars?

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Great idea but if I were him I'd start in Chicago.

First - because it's his home town and they have a really cool train station still.

But second because you can't get to San Francisco by train from St. Louis - unless you take the train to Chicago. You can go west to Kansas City - but that's it. I don't think you can connect from Kansas City to anywhere.

Not to mention that St. Louis doesn't even have a train station - it has a 'temporary' (i.e. thirty years) trailer. St. Louis "Union Station" is a hotel and shopping mall now. No trains.

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:13:40 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

By the way I'm still pondering how difficult it would be to take a trip up or down the Missouri River by water. I guess you could do it on a barge tugboat - that's something people do on the Mississippi River - go down to New Orleans by tug. But I've never heard of anyone doing it on the Missouri. But there is barge traffic so I guess it's possible.

You can go up or down the Mississippi ]in steamboat luxury on the Delta Queen but there is no equivalent on the Missouri.

Maybe you could use a small pleasure boat but I've never heard of anyone going on extended trips up or down the Missouri in a pleasure boat. It's not a nice river - lots of hazards in it.

It might be that he'd have to paddle like Lewis and Clark :)

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

he can use a bus if necessary.

by BooMan on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

heh. I guess he could. I thought you meant ON the river. It sounded like a cool idea to do that - until I started thinking about how nobody does it.

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Sounds like he could, at least from South Dakota on down.

by BooMan on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

It's definitely possible to go from St. Louis up to South Dakota - the river is big and deep enough. I just don't think there are commercial companies that offer trips. Mostly it's barge traffic. With little pockets of recreational boating near towns. Until you get up to the big recreational portion that's the subject of all the fights over Missouri River water rights.

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 1)

Found this on someone's random web page:

Location and Navigable Mileage: The upper Missouri River has been dammed in many places, creating a series of lakes with rather short sections of river in between. Some of these lakes are quite huge, and could be considered for an extensive cruise along the scenic shores. However, we suggest cruising on the navigable section of the Missouri River, from the head of navigation near Sioux City, IA, to the river's mouth near St. Louis Missouri. This portion of the river, maintained for navigation by the US Army Corps of Engineers, is 735 miles in length, with no locks or dams.

That's still quite a ways, but I sort of liked the dea of him renting a sternwheeler from somewhere and paddlewheeling his way through Montana and South Dakota down to New Orleans. Even though I know it'd never happen. :)

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:16:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 1)

You are a romantic Omir. I like that.

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Yes, why yes I am. Thanks for noticing. :)

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

he should at least ride the california zephyr from chicago to denver...what an entry, and denver's got a pretty nice old train station right downtown.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No connection from KC? (none / 0)

That's sad. One of my most favorite memories is taking the train from KC to LA...well, Pomona, but close enough. I was probably 9 and I thought it was so magical and very grownup of me (and my mom and sister) leaving Union Station.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No connection from KC? (none / 0)

You know, I didn't think so -- because every year they threaten to cut out all service between st. Louis and Kansas city. And then it gets saved. So I assumed you couldn't go anywhere from KC (or why cut off a way to get to KC).

But you made me curious. And you actually can still take a train from Chicago to LA stopping in Kansas City. But not in St. Louis. It cuts across northern Missouri.

So I still think he should start in Chicago. :)

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

No, no, no, no, no! He should start with the St. Louis to SF trip right after the convention, do some other campaigning throughout the country (maybe visit Alaska, maybe take a whistlestop tour or two through Pennsylvania and Indiana, maybe up and down the Eastern seaboard. Then make his way to Los Angeles, where a week and change before the election he takes the old Santa Fe route and ends up in Chicago the night before the election!

Probably he will need to make other stops instead for strategic reasons, but I like the idea of cheering crowds welcoming their favorite son in for the election, all the way from St. Louis to Union Station.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:08:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I think this is an excellent idea, particularly paired with a policy of revitalizing America's conventional transport network. Air travel is all kinds of awful. Imagine how much more pleasant travel would be if America had the kind of functional long-distance high-speed rail network most of the world takes for granted! Provide complementary Internet service on the train and stop subsidizing the airlines and the rail service will capture the lion's share of business travel. And it'd be green to boot, and create jobs in the areas that most need them...

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:32:11 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

You could probably get at least some businesses on board with the idea by offering incentives so that, for instance, Disney would offer vacation packages on trips to Los Angeles and Orlando, complete with charactes on board the train and maybe even a stop-over at a company-owned hotel along the way from major destinations.

I think America is going to have to get used to the idea that we can't do everything faster all the time any more. I'll be OK to wait a couple of days to get those strawberries out from California on the train, or to take ten hours to travel to Chicago instead of four. IMO we could use a little of that.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:22:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

A few years back I was at a convention held in Chicago and on the mini bus back to the hotels I sat next to a man whose daughter worked as one of Melinda Gates event and travel organizers. One of the jobs she undertook was to find special vacations for the Gates & friends and Warren Buffett to take. Turns out they bought up a couple of train cars, fixed them up and the group travelled, on their own schedule, around the US. He said they had a great time, a few squiggles to work out but that it was a great success.

by mainsailset on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 07:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

There are people who restore and rent out train cars for private use. I would love to rent one someday when I'm ridiculously wealthy.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Train tour = a great idea.

Restore train network to create jobs and help the environment = another great idea.

Bring back trolleys for intra city transportation like Warsaw, Dresden, Vienna, Prague, Nagasaki all have = a third great idea.

We can do it, yes we can. Just stop pouring our treasury into foreign wars and creating the biggest military Frankenstein in history.

There is no substitute for clear thinking.

Follow your bliss

by Ignod on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:07:02 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

My wife and I were impressed by a documentary we saw a while back about transportation in Europe vs. the Unted States. I don't remember most of the rest of it, but I came away with two facts that stuck with me:

75% of the land area in Los Angeles is devoted to use by cars.
Trolleys and trains in Switzerland always have the right of way. When a train comes through, the barrier goes down and cars get to wait their turn.

I think #2 is an eminently sensible idea. #1, not so much.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only 75%? (none / 0)

I would have thought it closer to 85%. They're talking widening streets and freeways to allow for more traffic, but the dodo heads don't do much to alleviate their current traffic. I read a few months back that repairs being made on the freeways down here were ideal for projected use figures for 2010. Unfortunately, the freeway repairs/widening won't be done until late 2010 - 2012, at which point, they'll have to start doing it all over again. Stupid.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 07:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only 75%? (none / 0)

Your tax dollars at work.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:41:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I believe the repubs voted present when they should have voted yes for a large (in the billions) war fund. Hahaha
It didn`t pass.

The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.

by KNUCKLEHEAD on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:07:41 PM EST

Lieberman's Very Serious Muslim-Bashing (none / 0)

Lieberman's Very Serious Muslim-Bashing Senate Report

by cberlet [Subscribe]
Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:50:30 PM PDT
A bigoted bombshell was lobbed from Inside the Beltway last Thursday when the Senate Committee on Homeland Security under the "leadership" of Committee Chairman Joseph Lieberman and ranking Republican Susan Collins. The report, "Violent Islamist Extremism, the Internet, and the Homegrown Terrorism Threat," (PDF) combines Muslim bashing with suggestions that would further undermine Constitutional rights in the United States.
* cberlet's diary :: ::

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/15472/6230/243/516387

The Israeli settlements doubled on Clinton's watch. But Hillary DID get her New York City senate seat. ...and now I will nuke Iran for you!

by Mattes on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:35:50 PM EST

Could Texas be in play (none / 1)

This is just thinking out loud because I don't know the state well, but I would like someone who does and who crunches the numbers to answer whether Texas might be in play for Obama, especially if Richardson is veep. Here is my thinking:

Bob Barr is a Southerner, but Libertarianism is chiefly a Western brand. However, Texas is uniquely both a Southern and a Western state, or that is my impression, so he may sell well there. I gather the state is quite Libertarian.
Richardson could drive Latino turnout, the key to Hillary's popular vote victory in Texas, through the roof.
A lot of the Texas Republicans that are not Libertarian are religious/social conservatives, and they also have issues with McCain.
In the early 90's the governer of the state was Anne Richards, who was, I'm under the impression, fairly liberal. So Liberals can prevail there statewide or could fairly recently.
Another issue is how dieboldable the state is. My guess would be a lot.

If Texas could be put into play, it would, of course, change the whole game. Good sendoff for Bush, too, seeing his electoral representative have to check off Obama.

by bento on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 09:35:05 PM EST

Re: Could Texas be in play (none / 1)

If Richardson is Veep, Texas is DEFINITELY in play. As will be all western states. Some people out east don't understand what a HUGE Latino population we have. These Latinos LOVE Richardson and they are not loyal to any party (in fact most never vote even though they are citizens because no one speaks to them.) Without Richardson, they will most likely draw to McCain, NOT Obama. But if Richardson is Veep and focuses his efforts to Spanish-language rallies and voter registration drives in the west, Obama will overwhelmingly win most western states. No question in my mind.

by RandyH on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 10:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Open Thread | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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