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Serious Question

by BooMan
Mon May 19th, 2008 at 05:58:56 PM EST

Should Obama declare victory tomorrow night, or not?

Serious Question | 39 comments (39 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

NO. As much as we know he will already have it sown up, he needs to stick to the high road no matter what. That is the basis for his campaign and coalition.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:05:39 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 1)

Exactly right.

by rba (nearnight12@yahoo.com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:07:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

My thoughts exactly, and besides, how much more refreshing for CLINTON to CONCEDE!!!!!!!!!

by aoxomoxoa on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 10:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 4)

No, out of respect for Florida and Michigan. Illegal or not, they still need to be dealt with.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:13:45 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 4)

No, don't ever want to have "Mission Accomplished" type of moment.

by americanforliberty on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:15:56 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 4)

Not.

The media will do it for him but he shouldn't.

Declaring victory tomorrow is like declaring you have won a race 10 feet before the finish line. Let the announcers have their 10 feet of excitement that he's going to win and THEY are calling it. He doesn't declare victory and collect his roses he's in the winner's circle with all the delegates he needs to be a winner.

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:16:18 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 8)

Assume victory without stating the obvious and continue running against McCain.

by fahey on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:16:24 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 2)

Exactly what Fahey says. Pretty much ignore HRC, and run against McSame.

nalbar

by nalbar (nalbarsatgmaildotcom) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:35:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Does it matter? (4.00 / 2)

He's not going to anyway. There was never a plan to "declare victory" tomorrow.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:12:51 PM EST

Re: Does it matter? (none / 1)

Hillary's campaign sure thinks he is. LOL They even sent out an email about it.

To: Interested Parties From: Howard Wolfson, Communications Director
Date: Monday, May 19, 2008
Re: Mission Accomplished? Not so fast.
Senator Obama's plan to declare himself the Democratic nominee tomorrow night in Iowa (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10184.html) is a slap in the face to the millions of voters in the remaining primary states and to Senator Clinton's 17 million supporters.
There is no scenario under the rules of the Democratic National Committee by which Senator Obama will be able to claim the nomination tomorrow night. He will not have 2210 delegates, the number needed with Florida and Michigan included in the process, nor will he have 2025 delegates, the number needed to secure the nomination without Florida and Michigan.
Premature victory laps and false declarations of victory are unwarranted. Declaring mission accomplished does not make it so.
While Senator Obama inaccurately declares himself the nominee, Senator Clinton will continue to work hard, campaigning for every vote in the upcoming states and making the case that she will be the best nominee to take on John McCain and be our next President.

But then they still think she can win also.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why're they're ineffective and dumb (4.00 / 2)

This morning, before I woke up, Obama has already released a statement that his visit to Iowa isn't a victory lap, but revisiting the place that put him on the road. It's a "thank you" visit.

Almost 3 hours later, the Clinton's release this memo. It's like they're stuck in a vacuum of stupid.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why're they're ineffective and dumb (none / 0)

I know that. I have enough friends working for the campaign to kow they are not that stupid. Obama's campaign has been run better than any campaign I have seen in decades.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why're they're ineffective and dumb (none / 0)

Yes, he certainly does have a great campaign. I worked for him on election day here in Pennsylvania, and I was amazed at how smooth, and yet flexible, it was. (And we came within a few percentage points of an upset win in the county!)

I want to see the campaign run the country. Can you imagine an administration that's organized, decisive, and eager for input?

by Joyful Alternative on Tue May 20th, 2008 at 11:15:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why're they're ineffective and dumb (none / 1)

The Independent, UK, - Tuesday, May 20, 2008

[.]
The mere fact of appearing in Iowa will be a signal of his confidence of prevailing over Mrs Clinton. Iowa not only kicked off the nomination process on 3 January, but supercharged the Obama quest by handing him a surprise victory. It was a shock from which the Clinton camp has never properly recovered.He acknowledged over the weekend that holding a rally in Des Moines, Iowa, was a "terrific way to kind of bring things full circle".
Tomorrow, Mr Obama, who last night won the symbolic endorsement of Robert Byrd, the oldest member of the Senate, will campaign in Tampa, Florida - one of two states, along with Michigan, disqualified from the nomination process for voting early.
[.]
Increasingly, however, Mrs Clinton is looking like an irrelevant force. Instead, the noise of battle is coming from clashes between Mr Obama and Mr McCain. Yesterday, the Republican nominee chose a speech before the National Restaurant Association in Chicago to slice into both Democrats on economic issues.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why're they're ineffective and dumb (4.00 / 2)

and, going to florida is another brilliant maneuver...especially in light of his visit to michigan last wednesday where he picked up edwards' endorsement.

wonder what new surprise might be on the agenda down in tampa...

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why're they're ineffective and dumb (none / 1)

they have been playing catch up since january, and super-duper tuesday derailed the machine.

they have been totally outclassed in the primary's...it has to be disturbing...ergo: the distinctive miasma of desperation emanating from hillaryville.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why're they're ineffective and dumb (none / 0)

stay tuned. The Obama camp has shown a masterful roll-out in every detail.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does it matter? (none / 0)

I wonder if the Hillary camp sent that message knowing that Obama wouldn't declare victory. But then they can point to their message and claim they stopped him from declaring victory. Pretend they have power.

by SusanD on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does it matter? (none / 0)

I think they are living in a fantasy world anyway.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought that too (none / 1)

When I saw the first memo, I was like, "No one can be that dumb." And yet, her supporters are acting as if the Clinton's memo made Obama change his mind. And they're getting pissy when it's pointed out the Clinton's memo was sent after the Obama memo.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought that too (none / 1)

They are so delusional it is pathetic. I have some friends who are die hard Hillary supporters who will not even speak to me as they know I am an Obama delegate to the state convention.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:44:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are they incapable of doing anything (none / 0)

that isn't A) deceptive, B) incompetent, C) designed to stir up more baseless antipathy at the expense of Dem prospects in the fall?

The Obama campaign has been denying this since mid last week, but Hillary is still pushing it anyway, trying to keep ginning up the resentment level among the faithful. Resentment is probably one of the last good motivators they have left at this point to squeeze out donations.

Last Wednesday night:

Q: Will you declare victory when you win the majority of pledged delegates?
BO: We will declare we have a majority of pledged delegates.

by Alien Abductee on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does it matter? (none / 0)

I'm not so sure that they think that they can win. Or at least not fairly via the DNC rules. Nonetheless, the Clintons are rallying their base with the last real GOTV strategy remaining: vindication of their so-called persecution by Obama, 'the media', etc.

Geraldine Ferraro as the arbiter of truth? Arch defender of feminism? C'mon. Anyone remember her husband?

What is Clinton doing besides exiling Bill to front porch speeches in the rural South? Likely making last minute arguments in a futile attempt to woo supers via the NYT electability piece (do we really think that Obama will lose many of the typical 'blue' states?); the popular vote myth; the 'unfairness' of the caucus approach (e.g. not representative of the primary population; don't turn out in the GE); ad nauseum.

Let's hope that she is not 'running' for VP. Obama can has much better choices (Strickland, Webb, etc.).

IMO, Obama should give Clinton the opportunity to concede. She will eventually, likely after the Rules Committee meets and Puerto Rico votes. If she waits until the convention, her political career is toast and Bill's legacy is further tarnished (not to mention his earning capacity).

by pragmaticprogressive on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 11:18:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He doesn't need to (4.00 / 2)

the media and the deluge of superdelegate endorsements will do it for him...

by moreaxe (moreaxe@gmail.com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:13:59 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (3.80 / 5)

one old adage, never appear too eager for the prize.

Everything else will speak loudly for Obama.

At this mo, 15.5 pledged delegates needed for a majority and a total of 109 total delegates to clinch the nomination.

Gallup Daily: Obama Opens Up 16-Point Lead, Biggest Yet
finds Barack Obama with his largest advantage over Hillary Clinton in Democratic voters' nomination preferences thus far, 55% to 39%.
Obama's previous largest lead was 11 percentage points, in May 15-17 and April 12-14 polling. His widening lead over Clinton has been evident in each of the last three days of tracking, after the two had been more closely matched earlier in the month.
Clinton's largest lead in the Gallup Poll Daily tracking was 20 points in mid-January, when she led Obama 48% to 28% (John Edwards was still in the race at that time).

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:44:13 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 1)

"Obama won't declare victory after Tuesday, but only because the media will do it for him. Clinton's chances sag another 0.1 point to 1.6 percent"

via slate death watch

turn out the lights...the party's over...via dandy don meredith.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I love it!!!!

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

The national poll results may be reflecting, among other things, the 'success' the Clinton campaign is experiencing. In other words, what flies in WV doesn't necessarily work elsewhere.

My interest at this point is in reaching some closure, even though it could easily be mistaken for piling on. The mistakes of the Clinton campaign were legion, what do they think voters are going to think of this? --

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/19/clinton-cites-karl-rove-as-reason-to-stay-in/

ad bellum purificandum - Kenneth Burke

by colinski on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I keep hearing and reading Clinton supporters who swear that they will never vote for Obama because of what he "did" to her.

Since what he did to her was beat her while trying to keep his campaign on the high road I'm not sure what can be done to pull these Clinton supporters in. I expect that many will come to Obama on their own because they rationally understand that as Democrats their interests lie with the Democratic Party and the Democratic candidate. And I am sure that there are plenty of Rethug agent provocateurs who pepper these sites, spurring on Clinton supporters. But we need every vote this year. The country has been looted by BushCo and we need every Democratic vote to get as many Democrats into office, and to get Obama elected.

by Bob In Pacifica on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 09:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

One hopes they realize that their best chance of having a woman as president someday lies with the Democrats, and electing Democrats moves that day closer. I honestly can't see the Republican party as presently constituted ever electing a woman President. Can you?

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Tue May 20th, 2008 at 12:24:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I can, but unless she first served as Vice-President.

by BooMan on Tue May 20th, 2008 at 01:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, Wednesday morning...so we can see (none / 1)

those lovely little girls of his.

Go Sasha! Go Malia!

An untypical Negro

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 06:05:54 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 1)

No. He has so far stayed out of the mud. He should have continued to do so.

And that Clinton memo thingee. Sheesh!

by The Farmer (pineviewfarm@comcast.net) on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 07:48:23 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

well, you guys and gals have given an unanimous response.

by BooMan on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:00:33 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

No.

by Alien Abductee on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 08:15:27 PM EST

Yes, if he's... (none / 0)

...got the delegates. Some people can't handle the truth. They are known as "losers."

by Veritas78 on Mon May 19th, 2008 at 09:48:48 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 1)

My opinion: He should let his supporters know that with their help, he has gained an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates. That's as far as he should go at this time.

C'mon, let's face it. I know he's won. You know he's won. He knows he's won. In her heart of hearts I'm sure Clinton knows he's won. But much as I hate to say it, much as I wish she'd drop out tomorrow, we have to wait for her to say it.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Tue May 20th, 2008 at 12:20:25 AM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

No, the disadvantage outweighs the advantage. Anyway, actions speak louder than words.

by priscianus jr on Tue May 20th, 2008 at 09:03:35 AM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I'm going to agree with the consensus. There is no reason for Obama to declare victory until after the last primary.

Hillary has several reasons for staying in. One, she thinks that she really is the better candidate and she also thinks that Obama is going to screw it up somehow before the election. Back in January I thought the same things. Obama is too inexperienced. What I was unaware of was his decision methods, and the long primary has made him a much better campaigner.
Two. Her campaign is in heavy debt. She can pay it off a lot easier if she keeps on running. Three, if Obama is seen as running roughshod over Hillary, there is a real problem bringing unity to the Democratic Party. This is still a real problem going forward into the general election. Hillary knows that.

Obama really doesn't need to declare victory. The Democratic Party will do that. All he has to do is start running against McCain. The Democratic Party is also changing focus towards the general election, and the Progressive independent organizations have also started on McCain. If Hillary can find a face-saving way to admit that she was defeated, then she still has a great future in the Democratic Party. We need her, and we don't need her strongest supporters pissed off at the way the contest was ended.

What's that old saying? "Gently, Gently, catchee monkey" wasn't it? (Something I read from the time of the British occupation of India.)It applies here. We don't need a fast, clear decisive ending of the process at this time. We need instead to prepare the best conditions for that ending. It's only May, the conventions are in August, and McCain's many deficiencies are already being presented by the corporate media.

Do you realize how powerful the election machines Obama and Hillary have now built in every state because of the long Primary season? I hear they are already beginning to cooperate against McCain, too.

What's the rush?

Proud Democrats do not appear on FOX News!

Visit Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

by Rick B2 (jayray21athotmaildotcom) on Wed May 21st, 2008 at 09:05:41 PM EST

Serious Question | 39 comments (39 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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