Booman Tribune

The Clintons

by BooMan
Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:31:57 PM EST

When your number one theme in a campaign is 'change', you don't nominate someone to be your running mate from a previous administration. That is about as basic as anything can get. That doesn't mean that Barack Obama should ignore the high level of support that Hillary Clinton has had in this nominating process. But it does mean that, contrary to what Bill Clinton thinks, Hillary has not earned a meeting to discuss joining the ticket. It's not a matter of 'earning' a meeting, it's a matter of the whole topic being a non-starter. Obama ran on sidelining lobbyists and changing the way Washington works. He can no more have Clinton on his ticket than he can have Dick Cheney. It would destroy the rationale for his candidacy. It has been a close contest, but the change candidate prevailed, and he needs a running mate that fits in thematically with his message.

The problem for the Clintons is that their defeat leaves them sidelined from power and with no obvious avenues for regaining it. Perhaps that is why they are latched on like a pit bull to the calf-meat of the Democratic Party. But no one gets a pit bull off their leg by offering them a better deal. You take a pool cue to their skull and whack them until they let go. There is no other way.

The problem is not so much dispatching the pit bulls, but doing so in such a way as to not alienate their supporters. Yet, once we start looking at this, it becomes obvious that the pit bulls do not care about their supporters. That's why this looks so ridiculous:

The growing discussion about a ticket of Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton is largely being fueled by Clinton supporters, although it is a suggestion that Obama supporters do not dismiss...Prominent supporters of Mrs. Clinton also are sure to be included, like Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana and Gov. Ted Strickland of Ohio.

Does anyone think the Clintons would feel better about how things turned out if Evan Bayh or Ted Strickland are on the ticket? For that matter, do any of Clinton's core supporters (other than corporate interests) give a crap whether Bayh or Strickland are on the ticket? No.

For the Clintons and their core supporters this has been about two things: the Clintons, and the historic possibility of a woman as president. It does nothing for those two goals to nominate a man not named Clinton to be on the ticket.

What we're currently dealing with is a form of blackmail, where the Clintons have the ability to do severe damage to Obama's electoral chances by delegitimizing his victory. He has no incentive to reward their bad behavior but he does have an incentive to get them to stop their bad behavior. So, what should he give them?

They don't want the vee-pee slot for one of their allies. They can't have the vee-pee slot for themselves. The Senate will never give her power now that most of them have endorsed Obama and are blood enemies of the Clinton family. And she's proven herself temperamentally unfit for the Supreme Court or, really, any position of real responsibility. Or, perhaps this last bit is too harsh. Maybe she will calm down in time and return to acting like someone with an ounce of integrity. We can hope. Nonetheless, it is not obvious how Obama can responsibly appease the Clinton family. And, yet, he needs to come up with something.



Display:
The overly simple answer to the question no one is asking is not what Hillary might bring to Obama's campaign but what Obama would bring to Hillary's table because it's always about Hillary.


by mainsailset on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:39:54 PM EST
How he dispenses with her is another test of strength and character.  I actually believe he'll pull it off and come out stronger for it (this coming from a glass half empty, or no glass, or not even sitting at the bar kind of guy).
by RollaMO on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:45:48 PM EST
Kleiman had a good suggestion: Chelsea for keynote speaker. At first I thought this would come across as obvious pandering, but then I decided it was a very good idea. She's a young person, the next generation--the future, and a woman.

Not to mention the Clintons' daughter.

by KathyF on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:46:24 PM EST
Wouldn't hurt, but do you really think this will buy anything with Billary?  I'm sure they love their daughter and all, but remember Hillary thought it was more important to make political buddies with John McCain than to shun him for making a horrible joke about Janet Reno being Chelsea's father.
by RollaMO on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's creative thinking.  I don't know if she would have an obvious rationale for speaking, but involving her in a youth outreach program or something would be both smart and an act of good will.  She could definitely talk about the challenges facing her generation at the convention.  
by BooMan on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:51:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe Chelsea can go onstage and talk about exactly how much she's made with that hedge fund she works for from oil futures and commodities futures. Maybe she's already got already got her first million.

No, I think Chelsea shouldn't be change. The kind of change that well-scrubbed young lady knows about is the "your hand to mind" kind of change.

by Bob In Pacifica on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:19:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess that would make some sort of sense.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008
by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What absolute idiocy. Ms. Chelsea Clinton is part of the family perpetrating the treachery, she's a participant. You might as well have her mother or father make the keynote speech. No one owes them anything. They are losing fairly and squarely, Obama certainly hasn't dished out more crap than she has. Let's hope enough super delegates now get behind Obama so Florida and Michigan can be seated, which will be the Clintons' consolation prize for being so affable (Bill), charming, friendly, supporative and, above all, loyal to the party (no more compliments for Mr. McSame) and all the rest. With the Clintons in a dual vice presidency slot, Obama will be burnt toast. I see the whole problem as the fault of the Democratic Party which is afraid to call the Clintons on their game. Or will the three Clintons turn around tomorrow and embrace Obama?
by Quentin on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 04:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For the Clintons and their core supporters this has been about two things: the Clintons, and the historic possibility of a woman as president. It does nothing for those two goals to nominate a man not named Clinton to be on the ticket.

I'd go one further. I think that for many, it's been about one thing: a third and fourth term for the Clintons, and a return to the mythical Utopian good times of the '90s. They don't care about a woman as President, they want another President named Clinton at any cost. It's pure cargo cult thinking, but it's very powerful.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:56:19 PM EST
that's a not a third thing, that's the first thing.
by BooMan on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I'm saying that I think the first thing has had a much, much stronger influence than the second.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Nonetheless, it is not obvious how Obama can responsibly appease the Clinton family. And, yet, he needs to come up with something."

Yes. He needs to get over to the nearest Hardware store's lumber division and buy a 2 x 4 x 6ft because that's what he'll get if the Clintons become part of his Administration - a whack in the back. They've  been setting him up to lose.

With people like these you don't need enemies. (I know, I know, keep the enemies closer) Not this one.

nothing less than the Oval Office chair and the Lincoln bedroom will make the Clintons satisfied.

After the insults, there's nothing, NOTHING, to talk over with Hillary.

She's already fucked him...saying it was his choice to trust her ...(that she'd take her name off the Michigan ballot) All during this campaign Obama remained a gentleman.

Despicable.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:58:02 PM EST
Obama wins, the Clintons lose.  It's his party then, not theirs, and they'll never get it back.  A cabinet post, a U.N. ambassadorship, even a Supreme Court spot, is chump change by comparison.

So from their perspective it makes entire sense to try to hamstring Obama for the general--so long as they can do it without really being seen to be doing it--and play for 2012.  In fact, from their perspective it's the only thing that makes sense.

I can't take seriously the idea that Hillary, or anybody on her team (anybody with any brains) wants her to have the Veep nod.  (She's impotent, and sidelined till 2016, if she gets it and he wins, and if she gets it and he loses she's tarred with the loss.)  The talk about it is merely another way of keeping the pot simmering, another way of creating a grievance narrative that might, might, carve away some crucial Dem votes from Obama come November.

The grievance narrative is pretty much all the Clintons have going for them against Barack now.  Expect them to play it hard all the way to the convention.

by drenglish on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:21:16 PM EST
I don't think it's personal. I think it's professional. Like a hit. Nothing personal, just work.
by Bob In Pacifica on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have always expected that Clinton will go all the way to the convention.  I expect she'll keep finding excuses to take it to Denver and turn it into a great  soap opera.

I think it's more than Clinton v. Obama.  I think it's DLC v. Grassroots.  The DLC had expected to tighten its control over the Democratic Party with Hillary at the helm.  I think that's why the DLCers keep standing up for her and urging her to fight on.

They're terrified of losing their grip on the Party and the power that comes with it.  The DLC reps I've heard speak about the grassroots have universally made clear their contempt for us.  They believe only they know how to run things.

by SusanD on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:36:36 PM EST
So being the rich junior senator from New York State isn't good enough?  Give her nothing.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin Survivor Left Blogistan
by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:46:02 PM EST
This "earned" bullshit from Bill is really chapping my hide.  If Clinton had bowed out after her 13 straight loses in Feb. with her $6M debt, that would have been one thing.  I'd probably feel nice towards her.  But I started this race not understanding why people absolutely hated her and now I can't stand the thought of her.  Only because as a former  First Lady, a sitting Senator and a Democrat her actions have tarnished all that unearned respect.  We have a person who is running a vastly different campaign today than what she was running a year ago, the messages have changed, policies have changed and her status as frontrunner has changed.  I'm tired of them telling me that a person with worldwide name recognition, a former POTUS as a husband, 165 superdelegates in the bag 8 months before voting began, and $120M raised, who has lost to an impressive run campaign has earned a damn thing.  

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008
by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:22:55 PM EST
Her campaign asks a question once in a while, and I think it's time that question was turned on its head. They keep asking why Obama should stay in the race if he can't beat Clinton in the big states. I say, why should she stay in the race after he's beaten her like an old Persian rug? He has only 56 supers to go to get to 2024. Personally I don't see why he owes her anything at this point. He's already been more than generous.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh
by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:49:03 PM EST
You "shut up and sit down" "iron my shirt" Obama supporters are really irritating.

OK, we get the idea that Clinton should just "get the heck out of the way" and allow "the coronation" of Obama.

This blog is a prime example.

Well, Obama needs Clinton if he is going to win in the Fall, and you and other Obama supporters would be wise to allow Clinton to exit as she wishes.

Another point, the Democrats will have a tough time in FL if the delegates are not seated and the votes are not counted. After all, it has been a real battleground state for the last two elections.

by mlhm5 (tarheel@caplix.com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:56:23 PM EST
I didn't tell anyone to iron my shirt.

That's the kind intellectually dishonest statement that is now the hallmark of Clinton's campaign and of her online supporters.  It's precisely why so many of us are no longer civil in return.

by BooMan on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Comments like the one you're responding too.  Only because I repeatedly hit my head on my desk too hard trying to explain facts to nitwits.  

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008
by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ditto.
by northcountry on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"You "shut up and sit down" "iron my shirt" Obama supporters are really irritating."

Uh, you picked the wrong blog to fly by.  No one here espouses these sentiments.

by RollaMO on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok you're cute and off the ranch.

Obama draws crowds of 75,000 in Ore and 15,000 in Tampa Fla and you think he needs Clinton on the ticket to win?

Wouldn't the GOP have fun....just what they hope for - a black guy and their old unifier.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:03:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you hear his "Americas" speech today? Those Cuban-Americans in the audience sure liked it. He'll do fine in Florida, especially after he decides it's only fair to seat their delegates at the convention. And he will seat them. But Hillary's got to get out of the way first.
by RandyH on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Weren't those statements eventually attributed to right wing agent provacateurs?

Your comment is a drive by mud slinging with no reason to fling it at the people who comment on this site.

by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
right-wing radio hosts out of Boston, I believe.
by BooMan on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hillary can exit however she wishes...and I'm sure she will do exactly that.  

It's up to Hillary to decide whether she'll make the election easier--or harder--for Obama.  To make that decision contingent on her demands of Obama sure smells like political blackmail.  Nice.  Glad she and her cohorts won't be the leaders of the Democratic Party.

by Sawgrass on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The "iron my shirt" guys were from a Boston radio talkshow. They do stunts. They are told to go someplace and do something stupid.

Now the real question is who told them to go to Hillary's speech and do something stupid? Who owns the radio station? My guess is that if you follow the chain of command you won't find Obama.

It was a prank. A set-up. Visiting troll, here's a Latin phrase you should learn: qui bono? Stupidity doesn't work here.

by Bob In Pacifica on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Hillary Clinton is not satisfied by leaving through the door and decides she wants to make her own way out by burning the house down, then no, I don't think she should be allowed to exit on her terms. She had a chance to do so gracefully. She has not and gives no indications of doing so.

Frankly, your comment is out of line.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the "coronation" that's been spoiled is Hillary's. Or did she not say that the primary would be over by Feb. 5th?

Not that you'd let facts get in the way.

I also find curious that you imply that Obama or his supporters were responsible for that horrible display in NH.

You'd be wise to go to Taylor Marsh site if you want a suitable place for your put-upon, pity party. I am not interested.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about we buy him a rack of pool cues? or maybe golf clubs

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow
by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:38:31 PM EST
well...it is just a metaphor.
by BooMan on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm certain refinish69 took it that way.
by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I knew it was.  I am just so over the Clintons that I either have to be slightly irreverent or totally furious and I prefer the comic  side of it.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow
by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I still say Obama should appoint Bill as UN Ambassador where he can schmooze, listen to himself talk and occasionally be surrounded with admirers (although they won't be the only folks he'll deal with).  And he won't even have to move out of NYC (so the Times crossword puzzle, among other things, will always be on hand).
by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:55:28 PM EST
Would this facilitate or inhibit his foreign business deals?
by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Make him ambassador to that place where they use boiling oil for their interrogators. It'll make for great stories when he goes golfing with GHWB.
by Bob In Pacifica on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uzbekistan, I believe.
by RandyH on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why would you appoint any past president as an ambassador?  He already has that status in an unofficial capacity.  I will be honest and say I do not see any of the Clintons in the administration in any capacity.  Their negativity during the last few months of the campaign have lost them any credibility with any thinking people and would only drag the Obama Administration down.

Doing My Part For The Left,Left Of The Rainbow
by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TPM: Bill Burton, Obama's spokesperson and Howard Wolfson from Clinton both deny talks

One argument down In Ohio McCain-Obama matchup, no VP, Obama up by 9 points.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The same reason that Condi wanted Bolton at the UN: to get him out of her hair.  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Harry Truman asked Calvin Coolidge to serve as an ambassador.

by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 06:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A top cabinet spot?  It's happened but I can't see her accepting anything except Sec'y of State--and with her foreign policy statements this spring, that's a show-stopper.

Also, maybe Obama buy her off by making a deal to help support fund-raising to retire her debts.

One of the ironies about picking Hillary as VP is that if that ticket wins, she'd probably be relegated to duties even more ceremonial than she had as First Lady.

by Sawgrass on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:56:53 PM EST
why should he buy her off. He owes her nothing.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"
by idredit on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:58:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She owes him an apology.
by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:07:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also to emphasize what has been said elsewhere, donations to his campaign would not and could not be used to pay her campaign debts.
by Sawgrass on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:12:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to pay off Clinton's campaign debts:

It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
to call upon a neighbour and to say,
We invaded you last night, we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away.

And that is called asking for Danegeld,
And the people who ask it explain,
That you've only to pay'em the Danegeld,
And then you'll be rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say,
Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you,
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.

And that is called paying the Danegeld,
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Danegeld,
You never get rid of the Dane!

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear it should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to be pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say,

We never pay anyone Danegeld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost.

Kipling was talking about countries here, but I'm sure you can make the connection.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Perhaps that is why they are latched on like a pit bull to the calf-meat of the Democratic Party. But no one gets a pit bull off their leg by offering them a better deal. You take a pool cue to their skull and whack them until they let go. There is no other way."
by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 01:59:47 PM EST
59 delegates remaining to clinch the nomination

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"
by idredit on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:10:07 PM EST
You obviously haven't seen Clinton's New New Math yet. It's not 59 anymore, it's 1,000,000,059.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 02:17:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
index finger to her math. now she claimss it's the Obama camp that's the source of this rumor of VP talks...'because they want me our of the race.'

And since I wrote 59, it's now 56 delegates remaining -  Obama picked up 3 more; - 2 Edwards' NH delegates and one from Ore.

Oooops! Rabbi Tucker says he's voting for Obama. Who's Rabbi Tucker?  Joe Lieberman's step-son


Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 03:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The situation is such that Obama doesn't have to do it all by himself. Howard Dean and the majority of Democratic Party leaders have every reason to want to shitcan the Clintons. As much as possible the changing of the guard ahould be done ont he basis of some of the outrageous stuff she's pulled against the party, then it will be more or less obvious that she cannot be veep ot anything else important.
by priscianus jr on Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 07:29:22 PM EST
My feelings are- and have always been about bad situations- or serious dilemmas (sic?). You are worse off trying some cockamamie solution than if you do the "right" if also the "hard thing". Remember HRC's vote for the Iraq resolution. Had she voted NO- she would almost certainly be the nominee at this point. The fact that she did the "politically expedient thing" has been a big negative in her campaign.    

The Obama people need to lean very hard on the superdelegates NOW before May 30, get them to come out for him and eliminate the possibility of a long appeal of a decision they might reach which the clintons wouldn't like- see going to convention.  Allienating her supporters is an issue which they can only MANAGE by running a very good aggressive campaign.  While the fiasco in 2000 was horrible - I will not be able to watch the HBO movie on Sunday--- it would not have happened if the Clintons had helped Gore, or if BC hadnt soiled himself, or if Donna Brazile et al had run a better campaign.  THE OBAMA PEOPLE ARE LUCKY- SMART ETC TO HAVE SUCCEEDED IN BEING THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE, BUT THERE ARE ALWAYS PROBLEMS THAT MUST BE SOLVED, AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM. THEY MUST DO THE RIGHT THING IN ATTACKING MC CAIN, RUNNING A SMART CAMPAIGN TO APPEAL TO THE DUMMIES AND LET FATE AND THE VOTERS TAKE CARE OF THE REST!!!!  THEY CANNOT FINESSE AWAY HER ANGER AND ESP THE ANGER OF HER SUPPORTERS.

Tanouche

by tanouche (tksundquist@aol.com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 10:32:01 AM EST


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