Booman Tribune

What This Means

by BooMan
Wed May 7th, 2008 at 11:35:47 AM EST

One thing that last night made clear is that the only viable solution is to propose a joint ticket with Clinton on top, Obama as VP. It's as clear as day. Okay...I admit it...that's delusional. But some people are suggesting that Obama should select Clinton as his running mate as a way to mend fences. Anyone who thinks that is a good idea hasn't really been following the campaign. It hasn't been a battle between Barack Obama (centrist black man) and Hillary Clinton (centrist white woman). That was the superficial story line where the only difference between them was their identities. If you thought that was what the choice was, you can be forgiven because that's what the media and more than half the blogosphere told you it was about.

In reality, this was a generational fight. It was a fight between those that came to power during the post-McGovern era and those that aspire to power in the post-Bush era. It was between a party that relied on the white blue collar ethnic vote and a party that relies on majorities from non-whites, non-Christians, and the generation of whites that grew up well integrated with them. It was between a party that came to rely on corporate money and union muscle just to be competitive with Republicans and a party that has learned the new fundraising and social networking skills of the Information Age.

But, above all, it was a fight about leadership. Barack Obama knew better than to rely on the existing infrastructure, created by the blogosphere, to fight back against the Bush administration and the media. We are too stridently partisan to be messengers of a new kind of politics. He had to step around the gatekeepers of the blogosphere, much to their chagrin. Barack Obama's greatest accomplishment is the organization that he created. He used our tools and his own message. And he won. He could not have won any other way. And that makes him both our greatest representative, and someone who doesn't really need us at all. All of you should go join up on his website and meet your neighbors that are supporting him, and get organized. For presidential stuff, there is no reason to use the blogosphere at all. Use Obama's own tools.

However, for downticket races and for media criticism, there is still no substitute for the blogosphere. Last summer I said that we couldn't really have any effect on the outcome of the primaries and that a farmer in Iowa had more say than we could ever hope to have. Boy, was I wrong! Obama gave all of us the tools to make a difference...in 45 states now. But those tools don't exist for House and Senate races, and that's where our focus needs to go at this point.

As for the Clintons, it took a lot of money and a lot of psychic energy to defeat them. There is no way that Obama can betray that effort by inviting them back into the tent. That would make his campaign all about him, rather than all about us. This was a fight for the ideological soul of the party. But the ideology wasn't so much about health or education policy. It was about how the party is organized, who it really represents, and whether or not it will continue to be beholden to the old lobbyists, interests groups, and consultants, or whether it will become the truly people-powered party that is a necessary predicate for bringing real progressive change.

We have our victory, even if it isn't quite what we imagined it would be. Now it's our job to go out and win the November elections all up and down the ticket and change what is possible in Washington.

Okay, the first link is getting redirected to another post by the fools at Confluence. Here's what you should see when you go there:

Dear SD’s, here’s the only viable solution:
Posted on May 7, 2008 by riverdaughter

1.) Propose a joint ticket with Clinton on top, Obama as VP. She’s earned the top spot by capturing all of the big states and swing states. He is much more acceptable as a VP than she is. She is more qualified and experienced. You can’t afford to lose her supporters no matter how much you try to talk yourselves out of it, The AA community will come around because Barry can get experience in the executive branch, which he desperately needs, and run as her successor in 2016. They just want to see him get there. Why not do it in stages?

2.) Get the Rules and bylaws committee to waive the penalty on FL and MI so that Clinton gets the delegates she needs. You’re going to have to do this anyway. Ok, have Obama do this at a sunlit tableau surrounded by grateful Floridians and Wolverines. Just get on with it already.

3.) Negotiate the deal before the end of the primary season and before anyone hits the magic number, which is illegitimate without Florida and Michigan. If you wait until someone hits it, the possibility of getting the ticket you need starts to approach a limit of minus infinity.

4.) Fire Howard Dean and Donna Brazile ASAP.

I hate the idea of a unity ticket but that’s the only way I will vote for Obama this year- is if he is VP. Think about it because there are some majorly pissed off members of the “old coalition” out there who you are going to lose shortly.

I’m bumping this up from the comments. I know this person is a REAL Republican and this is what she has to say about the proposal above:

Riverdaughter - you know I’m the Republican lurker here. I was just talking to the hubby last night about what a debacle the primary has been with Michigan and Florida. To ignore people’s votes is just wrong. To say “Florida can’t have it’s primary before …” is just wrong. The election needs to be controlled by the will of the people, not the DNC chairman (and that’s what it will come down to). Hillary deserves top billing on the Democratic Ticket and it needs to be done soon. People like me will then have time to compare McCain and Clinton on the issues and make their objective opinion.

There you go. It’s one but I’ll betcha there are others.



Display:
I agree with something David Gergen said a few months ago...Obama would need a food taster if he picked Hillary as VP.

NO.WAY.IN.HELL.

by Cee on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:09:17 PM EST
Think JFK and LBJ. The permanent government would so much more prefer Clinton than Obama. No parades with the roof off the Presidential limousine either.
by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What this means:

Some people are really bad losers.

Let's not give this inanity any attention, as it deserves NONE.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:25:49 PM EST
by calling for a unity ticket a la Andrew Sullivan.

One reason why Obama has succeeded so utterly is because of the impression that he is nothing at all like the Clintons.

To bring her in is like making Cheney Vice President all over again for either prospective nominee.  She'll want to run the show.  Plus, she's too right-wing, due to her sucking up to the likes of Faux and Scaife.

It would be a disaster.

Let Obama get someone like Wesley Clark or Sibelius, Napolitano or Webb.  ANY. . . ONE. . . BUT. . . HILLARY. . . CLINTON.


An untypical Negro

Writing

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The whole point of the post is how wrongheaded and pointless adding Clinton to the ticket would be.

Despite the cultural and ideological battles, I also think that Clinton on Obama's ticket in places he did +20pts. in would really harm him.  

I just hope that the PTB don't try to force Clinton on him.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:50:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought so too until I saw the invisible <snark> tags around that recommendation.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh
by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed - but he was just being sarcastic!

I like Richardson or any of the ones you've named. I think I like Richardson best though because he showed a lot of political courage coming to Obama's side when he was not a sure thing.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:31:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but I didn't see those snark lines when I read them.

Too bad the Borg Queen is still in the race, though.

An untypical Negro

Writing

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only VP spot I can see Hillary accepting is McCain's.  Then we could really decide whether America is progressive or regressive.

Oops, I wasn't gonna talk about this anymore...  But it would be fun to watch everyone go ape over it.  Not to mention how smoothly Barack handles it.

by Alice on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:03:17 PM EST
Now that would be scary - as in the Empire strikes back...

"We reported back to hearts what we had seen, and told our footsteps all about where we had been."
by Frank Schnittger (Frankschnittger at hotmail dotty communists) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
1.) Propose a joint ticket with Clinton on top, Obama as VP. She's earned the top spot by capturing all of the big states and swing states. He is much more acceptable as a VP than she is. She is more qualified and experienced. You can't afford to lose her supporters no matter how much you try to talk yourselves out of it, The AA community will come around because Barry can get experience in the executive branch, which he desperately needs, and run as her successor in 2016. They just want to see him get there. Why not do it in stages?

2.) Get the Rules and bylaws committee to waive the penalty on FL and MI so that Clinton gets the delegates she needs. You're going to have to do this anyway. Ok, have Obama do this at a sunlit tableau surrounded by grateful Floridians and Wolverines. Just get on with it already.

Wow.  A nut case.  Just like Her Majesty.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:25:39 PM EST
Just like Her "post-rational" Majesty. ;-) I love Rachel Maddow for that!

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes
by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rachel just reveals her hideous aversion to ovaries.

Or something.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought the Obama campaign was extremely well-organized here in my corner of PA, and it was great to see the bottom-up approach be so effective this campaign season.  And even better, the volunteers during the primary were looking forward to doing it again for November, even the first-timers.

BTW, I find it highly amusing that confluence/riverdaughter is redirecting your link to a different post about the new new magic delegate number for the nomination...talk about moving the goal posts out of the stadium.

by CabinGirl on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:01:39 PM EST
I'm hearing and reading all sorts of stuff about the ticket.
I'm reading a lot about Gore on the ticket as the Christ-like, feel-good/rally-around-the-compromise figure. Just stoopid. And the Obama/Clinton 'Dream Ticket' scenario would make Obama look like... well, like a craven idiot. She's a liablity, not an asset. (And let's just not speak of a Clinton/Obama ticket ever again. Has she earned the top of the ticket?)
Many of the the Hillary people haven't made it around the bend with the rest of us, though. To wit:
The plain-damn scary 'Big Tent Democrat' @ Talk Left:
"My own view is she should run her campaign against John McCain. She will win West Virginia and Kentucky by huge margins."

Mr. Armstrong @ MyDD:

On the allowing for the full seating of MI and FL, if Obama gets to the point where he has enough delegates to win the nomination despite MI & FL being seated, then ultimately, that would be the best route for Obama to go through, even though it seems unlikely.

The only thing that's gonna get Hillary off of this is the money (or lack of it), I'm convinced; not George McGovern, not Wesley Clark.  She and Bill will listen to them (though not necessarily politely), but she's just too power hungry. She's got the fever.

by Sprocket77 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:04:45 PM EST
Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community
As for the Clintons, it took a lot of money and a lot of psychic energy to defeat them. There is no way that Obama can betray that effort by inviting them back into the tent. That would make his campaign all about him, rather than all about us. This was a fight for the ideological soul of the party. But the ideology wasn't so much about health or education policy. It was about how the party is organized, who it really represents, and whether or not it will continue to be beholden to the old lobbyists, interests groups, and consultants, or whether it will become the truly people-powered party that is a necessary predicate for bringing real progressive change.

I think you misunderstand both Obama and the Vice Presidency.  Firstly, you have already said that Obama is his own man, he doesn't need the blogosphere.  He is betraying no one by attempting to heal the rift between the old and the new Democratic parties.  That is how you achieve power - by making compromises where you have to, and change where you can.   Kennedy appointed Lyndon Johnson as his VP even though he was anathema to everything he stood for.

Secondly, appointing Clinton as VP nominee is a good way of preventing her from being a problem - its better to have her inside the tent pissing out, rather than the other way around.  "Keep your friends close to you, and your enemies even closer..."

Putting her on the ticket is all about healing a rift - not about sharing power.  Imagining that Hilary somehow "deserves the top spot on the ticket" - now that is seriously delusional.

"We reported back to hearts what we had seen, and told our footsteps all about where we had been."

by Frank Schnittger (Frankschnittger at hotmail dotty communists) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:06:17 PM EST
Unfortunately, I see no evidence that if Clinton were inside the tent that she still wouldn't be pissing inside the tent.
by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Kennedy didn't appoint Lyndon because he was his opponent. He appointed him solely to appeal to the south.

This is a different race. Hillary as VP doesn't buy us anything, and costs us much.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Moreover, Hillary Clinton is not the only woman in the world, not the only candidate that is appealing to older voters, and not the only person that appeals to Joe Six-Pack.  If Obama wants to pick a running mate that helps him with those demographics, he has plenty of choices.
by BooMan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All excellent points!

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes
by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And none of them have the Clinton Mafia following them around.
by Andrew Longman on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a hearty amen. who needs a Judas?

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"
by idredit on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right on point.

Thank you.

The depth of Hillary hate is truly delusional.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think it's delusional at all.  She earned every last scintilla of it.
by SusanD on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:55:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good post. I suspect that those older generational voters who wouldn't vote for Obama without Clinton won't necessarily be pulled to Obama with Clinton as Veep. I think that Clinton's high negatives are such that being on a ticket would turn off more independents and moderate Republicans attracted to Obama than disaffected women and oldsters who would vote for a ticket with Hillary as a Veep.

The riverdaughters of the world will just have to figure out in six months if their faux hate of Obama for faux reasons trumps four years of McCain.

by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:14:07 PM EST
all those people suggesting/proposing a unity ticket with Clinton on top or an Obama-Clinton ticket misses  the entire phenomenon of the past year.

The Obama movement is heavily invested and empowered by people from a broad spectrum of American society. All 1.5 million donors plus volunteers sitting at home phone banking, organizing.

Hillary Clinton on the ticket !- top, bottom or sideways - would be a betrayal. If Clinton gets anywhere near this ticket the Democratic Party will be consigned to the wilderness for decades.

These empowered people are saying goodbye to the old politics; political expediency of unprincipled actions. The Clintons embraced lying Rovian politics; she fanned innuendo - when asked is Obama a muslim, she could not answer such a direct question; she embraced Richard Scaife, Limbaugh, VWRC, Kristol, Buchanan and Ferraro - all aimed at destroying a fellow party member. Talk about a Judas.

Last night Andrew Sullivan had this observations:

Black Voters Did It

Here's what now seems obvious: African-American voters killed the Clinton candidacy. It is a fitting end to the Clintons' campaign and an almost Shakespearean coda to their career. The Clintons were exposed in their long-running exploitation and reliance on minority votes. No group was more loyal to them than African-Americans; and in the end, like everyone else, African-Americans realized that the Clintons are frauds, disloyal to the core, cynical to their finger-tips, and finally, finally, returned the favor. A reader writes:

   ""I found it striking that Clinton did not even pretend to be courting African Americans in North Carolina. Had the tables somehow been turned and had Obama's soul been implanted in her body, he would have made a show of at least organizing one major African American outreach event there or in Indiana. Obama went bowling in Altoona, after all. I kept expecting Hillary, ever since South Carolina, and certainly since Louisiana, to give her own major speech on race to a black audience in..""

more

How Do They Take This From Him?

There is no calculation that currently gives the Clintons a majority of the popular vote. There is now no mathematical possibility of them getting more delegates. Obama has won by far the most states. He has raised far more money; he has 1.5 million donors, mainly small sums. He has crushed her among new voters and young voters; and as a black politician, his support spans all races and classes. And recall: he is a freshman senator with a very funny name against the biggest brand name in American politics and a worldwide celebrity whose chief campaigner was a former two-term president of the United States.

When you take a couple of steps back, you realize the astonishing success of this movement. In the last month, every brutal guilt-by-association smear has been thrown at him and the Clintons have been reduced to hoping that Rush Limbaugh will turn out their voters that Karl Rove's tactics are worthy of the Democrats.




Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"
by idredit on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:20:28 PM EST
Amen to this.  Obama has beaten the most powerful machine in decades in the Clinton juggernaut, but now he has to beat McCain.

He can and will.  McCain's got nothing.

by Zandar1 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the most amazing thing about Obama's campaign is he did it against the Clinton machine. They started off with all the advantages: name recognition, money, friends in high places, endorsements, the carefully tended aura of inevitablity, and yes, skin color when it comes right down to it. And yet this black man with the funny name managed to pull off one of the biggest upsets since slings and stones were in vogue, and he did it in spite of the goalposts being changed on a regular basis.

How did he do it? Well, while the Clintons were changing the goalposts and working on revisions to the rules, he changed the game.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice. And a very nice punch line, Omir.
by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. It just occurred to me while I was typing that comment, that's that what had happened. And FSM willing, we're never going back to playing the old game again.

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -- Ambassador Kosh
by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
3.) Negotiate the deal before the end of the primary season and before anyone hits the magic number, which is illegitimate without Florida and Michigan. If you wait until someone hits it, the possibility of getting the ticket you need starts to approach a limit of minus infinity.

These people really do believe that if Obama hits 2025 without FL or MI then it's not fair.  

Yet...FL and MI broke the rules that Clinton signed off on and it's fair to want to bend the rules to get them seated.  

However...I'm positive that if Clinton got a majority of the 2025 number on Super Tuesday as planned, then FL and MI wouldn't have mattered and I'm sure we wouldn't have heard a peep out of PA, WV or KY.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:55:59 PM EST
ya know, this morning I was feeling badly for the clinton supporters. it's tough to lose, especially in a hard-fought race like this.

Then I started seeing all this "Obama made it a racist campaign" and my sympathy again turned into derision and scorn.

And that garbage riverdaughter dredged up on her "Guam" post is vile.

Brendan Calling John Mccain

by brendan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:21:54 PM EST
She's on CNN right now saying she's in it until the White House.

Nothing has changed in her universe of magical thinking.  She will never quit.  She will never go away.  If she is denied the top spot, she will take Obama down with her and run again in 2012.

Don't kid yourselves.  Nothing has changed.

by Zandar1 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:34:03 PM EST
Nope.  Obama can have the nomination when he rips it from her cold (un)dead hands.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, what bothers me the most about Hillary is the fact that she figures she can still win in November no matter how much damage she does to Obama in her effort to win.

Which means the Hillary camp honestly believes it doesn't need Obama voters at all to win, particularly African-American voters like myself or younger voters.

So if I'm not needed by Clinton and not wanted by McCain, why should I bother voting?

by Zandar1 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What has changed is that Punditland recognized it was over last night. It's going to be hard for all of them to forget that they buried Clinton last night. I suspect that we'll start seeing the SDs coming out of hiding in numbers now.

It will be curious. If Clinton keeps attacking Obama, then everything negative that people have presumed of her intentions post-March are true. If she continues to run, but is running against McCain, then she's taking her last lap, knowing that it's over.

But she knows that it's over. We know that she knows that it's over. The punditocracy knows that it's over and last night said that it's over. Even Big Top Democrat knows that it's over. Okay, Jeralyn doesn't know that it's over, but most people know that it's over.

Because it's over.

by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't lurked there much over the last few months but I hopped over to Taylor Marsh's site earlier.  She seems to be having a little rant, which I guess makes some sense given how things have played out.  But she did say something peculiar which I don't quite understand.  She lays a little groundwork first.
I'm not a cheerleader, folks. In the end I'm coldly pragmatic. I'm a political analyst first. If you're looking for a political den mother you long ago misconstrued my purpose and my passion. The reason Clinton is my candidate is not because I'm simply some fan. Hillary is my candidate because she's got a brilliant mind, is a fighter, and I believe the only candidate who can bring Americans back who have been voting against their economic interests for decades. I believe only she can expand the party to Latinos, as well as bring women out in droves, including Republican women, independents and women who have never voted before. If I didn't believe Clinton was a winner I would never have backed her in the first place.

In addition, some commenters are blithely stating they will bail on this site, me and the work I do, including my efforts to get back on radio, if Obama is the nominee and this site and my commentary becomes "pro Obama." I'm being asked in emails, plus comments, amidst the hate screeds from Obamabots, by Hillary supporters what I will do "if" Obama wins the nomination. I'll let you know when that happens. I'm working through all this myself, in case you're not aware of the obvious.

Here is where she loses me.

I will say this much. I am a fighter for Democratic and progressive causes. I will fight against John McCain's candidacy with every fiber of my being.

That said, since I can't make the case for Senator Obama now, I won't be making it later. His fans will have to do that. There is no way I can ethically or in good conscience turn 180 degrees to start touting him. But I can and will stand up for Democratic principles. So the focus will be on making sure John McCain is not elected.

Her stated raison d'être is to make sure John McCain does not get elected.  But as for supporting the Democratic nominee, when it is Obama, "There is no way I can ethically or in good conscience turn 180 degrees to start touting him".  Just how in the hell do you rationally square those contradictory statements? Borrow Bush's magic wand?  I kind of assumed there was probably a modest contingent of supposed-Democrats out there who would not vote for Obama if he were the nominee.  She is saying she is a fighter for Democratic causes, yet will not support Obama as the nominee.  Ergo, by that statement, Obama must not support Democratic causes.  For someone of her prominence to outright reject the Democratic nominee while claiming to be "a fighter for Democratic and progressive causes" is just plain bat-shit insane!  As much as I do not want Hillary to be the nominee, I would never, in my wildest dreams, ever consider either not voting for the Democrat (even if it was Clinton) or voting for McCain.

How can anyone who claims to be a progressive and a Democrat allow themselves the possibility of being complicit in the election of McCain by their seething hatred over the results of primary voting?  I hear all this talk about the Hillary-hate exhibited by Obama supporters.  But I've got to say that Taylor's comments just plain take the cake.  Hillary hate indeed!

Et tu, Brute?

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio (miken45054@yahoo.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:05:47 PM EST
well, she's right.  She can't just do a 180 and start touting him or she'd lose all her credibility.

Oh, wait...

by BooMan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:10:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Viola!

It might be that she unwittingly revealed her most pressing concern in all of this.

Those inconvenient truths sometimes have a way of slipping out when you're in a full blown rant.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio (miken45054@yahoo.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is the deadline for Hillary getting herself on the ballot as an independent in the Fall?

I'm utterly convinced that nothing will stop her in her determination to get back into the White House, including abandoning her party because "she's the most viable candidate and most qualified for the office"

by Andrew Longman on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:16:05 PM EST
Hillary would do everything to sabatoge Obama.

And why should her racist, lying, backstabbing campaign get rewarded.

Patriotism and religion, like whiskey, is best used in moderation. Mark Twain

by skeeters2525 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:27:29 PM EST
But if you must abuse, don't impinge.
by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:11:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Booman is spot on with his analysis. In my mind Obama won this race in South Carolina, Virginia and Wisconsin. He out worked and out hustled to defeat the Clinton Democratic machine. He beat the machine but did not knock it out, and thus why this extra long process has transpired.

This whole FL/MI whining is a complete sham. Clinton agreed to the rules before the game and Harold Ickes sanctioned them. Terry McCauliffe is on the record to agreeing of stripping them of delegates. The Republican party stripped delegates from those 2 states too.

To go around and want to change them solely now because she is losing is pure dishonesty. If Florida and Michigan were half full of blacks, I wonder if we would hear a peep from the Clinton surrogates/fans in this scenario?

They want to do overs because they think they can get more delegates not because the genuinely care about the voters of those states. PLEASE!

It sucks to lose in anything, especially when you are so passionate and invested in it. I campaigned for Bill Bradley in college at UIowa and did not like Al Gore but voted for Gore. I supported Howard Dean early on because I personally witnessed John Kerry treat his Senate staff like crap but I voted for Kerry.

Time Heals all wounds in politics. I just feel excited to  vote FOR/support a candidate instead of mainly  against electing the another one. Maybe this is what those 28% of Americans who still support GW feel like.

As for VP, I have heard Webb and Corzine. The women govs of AZ and KS would work too. No chance he picks HRC and it would be counter productive to his image/message.

"The heart of darkness is the president. Nobody knows what he thinks, even the people who work for him."

by Mac G on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:29:09 PM EST
by Booman.  What do you think?  Spring 2009 release?

You've had the most insight and been correct more than anyone else in the Blogospehere. When do we get to see you profoundly imparting profound wisdom on CNN or MSNBC?

by northcountry on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:04:34 PM EST
Again Booman your reasoning seems spot on to me.  My biggest dislike for Hillary has been the company she keeps. They all need to take a hike and she needs to get back to doing the job she was elected to do.
by expat on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 05:47:07 PM EST


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Find textbooks at Alibris!

NOTE: Overstock bests Amazon's prices and is "blue."

THE BOOKS WITH "BUZZ":
______________

Support the Wilsons and buy Val's book:

Fair Game: My Life as a Spy, My Betrayal by the White House
by Valerie Wilson

New from W. Patrick Lang:

The Butcher's Cleaver: A Tale of the Confederate Secret Services by W. Patrick Lang

ManEegee recommends:

The Devil's Highway: A True Story
by Luis Alberto Urrea

Some good history:

Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA
by Tim Weiner

What's going on in Iraq:

Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone
by Raji Chandrasekaran.

On BooMan’s shelf:

The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End
by Peter W. Galbraith

This looks interesting:

Adventure Divas
by Holly Morris

Here’s a good one from
Elizabeth Gilbert:

Eat Pray Love
by Elizabeth Gilbert

"Crash" * Best Motion Picture, Academy Awards * Only $11.79 at Overstock * 2006 SAG Winner, Best Ensemble

Check out
Powell's new section:
NEW FAVORITES

Selected new arrivals at 30% off

Recommended by Indianadem and ejmw:
The Conscience of a Liberal
by Paul Wellstone

From northcountry’s bookshelf:

The New Golden Age:
The Coming Revolution Against
Political Corruption and Economic Chaos
by Ravi Batra

A novel about contractors in Iraq from the woman that runs The Spy That Billed Me:

Outsourced: A Novel
from RJ Hillhouse.


SOTW-120x90
Download Sleeper Cell on iTunes (Better than "24") Download Weeds on iTunes (Hilarious 1/2-hour adult comedy starring Mary-Louise Parker) Download Late Nite with Conan O'Brien on iTunes
John Belushi - SNL
Download South Park on iTunes
Verve Vault

James Hunter - People Gonna Talk:
James Hunter - People Gonna Talk
icon


Great Deals
----- * ^ * -----

Find mystery novels by Nancy Pickard ("Kansas")



Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy US Power by Phyllis Bennis (interviewed on DN!)


Featured by Keith Olbermann, New (Powell's Sale): Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum (whose other books merit serious consideration)


"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen


The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review


BT's all-time best seller:

PERMACULTURE:
A Designers' Manual

$79.95 * Sale: $59.95


Unequal Sisters: A Multicultural Reader in U.S. Women's History (Third Edition)


The Undercover Economist: Exposing Why the Rich Are Rich, the Poor Are Poor And Why You Can Never Buy a Decent Used Car!


The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl
by Timothy Egan


Green Press Initiative
----- * ^ * -----


Journalistas: 100 Years of the Best Writing and Reporting by Women Journalists by Eleanor Mills * NYT review


Bury Me Standing: the Gypsies & Their Journey


1491: New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus



Brokeback Mountain
by Annie Proulx
----- * ^ * -----
Check out Powell's
"At The Movies"


Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World by Noam Chomsky (Power & Terror: Post 9-11 Talks)


The Price of Privilege:

How Parental Pressure and
Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of
Disconnected and Unhappy Kids

by Madeline Levine


Save 35-70% on
name brand clothing,
footwear, and outdoor gear
at SierraTradingPost.com

:





We listened to PEN American Center's "State of Emergency" and found 1940s books by Curzio Malaparte only at Alibris. (Selection (MP3) excerpted from "The Skin.")

Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
Banned Books * Are you a fan of Film Noir, Art House, Documentaries or Hong Kong Action? * Searching for a long-lost children's book or a first printing of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue on vinyl? Find it at Alibris!

:
:
www.Patagonia.com



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