Booman Tribune

Bizarro World

by BooMan
Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:21:12 PM EST

It must be a bizarro world when Arlen Specter doesn't need a phone call but Barack Obama does:

"I am opposed to the proposed legislation because it does not require a judicial determination that what the telephone companies have done in the past is constitutional. It is totally insufficient to grant immunity for the telephone companies’ prior conduct based merely on the written assurance from the administration that the spying was legal," Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) said in an e-mailed statement.

"The provision that the bill will be the exclusive means for the government to wiretap is meaningless because that specific limitation is now in the 1978 Act and it didn’t stop the government from the warrantless terrorist surveillance program and what the telephone companies have done. That statutory limitation leaves the president with his position that his Article II powers as commander in chief cannot be limited by statute, which is a sound constitutional doctrine unless the courts decide otherwise. Only the courts can decide that issue and this proposal dodges it."

Unless this all part of a brilliant plan to popularize the campaign of Libertarian candidate Bob Barr and thereby win some extra states, Obama is making a big mistake in moving to the right of Arlen Specter. And even if it is a political move, the FISA debate is about bedrock principles of constitutional rights, separation of powers, and the rule of law. Political dodges and maneuvers are inappropriate.

But here's an honest question. Who is saying this bill is good and necessary? Look around. Is anyone saying that who is not implicated in the wrongdoing? The New York Times thinks it is a terrible bill. The ranking member of the Judiciary Committee (Sen. Specter) thinks it's a terrible bill. The chairman of the Judiciary Committee (Sen. Leahy) thinks it is a terrible bill. The ACLU thinks it is a terrible bill. The entire blogosphere thinks it is a terrible bill. Who thinks it is a good bill?

Even Reid, Pelosi, and Hoyer are not saying it's a good bill. They're calling it a good compromise or whatever. It's bad law. It's wrong to support this bill. Listen to Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones (D-OH):

"While I understand the need for intelligence security, I am concerned that the bill would take away many 4th amendment rights from Americans as well as provide retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies," said Rep. Tubbs Jones. "I find the provision that permits the government to conduct mass, untargeted surveillance of all communications coming into and out of the U.S., without individual warrants or even a showing of possible cause that they may have broken the law particularly troubling.

You think?

"Additionally the fact that the legislation permits only minimal court oversight undercuts the role of the FISA court and trivializes court review by authorizing the government to continue a surveillance program even after an application is denied by the court."

Why would any sane person support such tyranny?



Display:
Obama's statement regarding FISA leaves me disappointed, and wondering why his campaign didn't seize this chance to make a strong statement.  It was the first really significant issue for him since becoming the nominee, and his apparent choice to go along with business as usual in Washington strikes me as a terrible squandering of an opportunity to make it clear that he really intends to stand on principle and affect significant change.  His posture on the issue sends a troubling signal that he is reluctant to rock the boat.  He has a huge storehouse of political capital, and this was a great time to spend some of it on an important Constitutional matter.  I'm not so bent out of shape about this that my faith in his campaign is shaken, but I hope he understands that those of us who supported his agenda for change expect real results, and we will hold his feet to the fire
by eagleye on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:38:40 PM EST
The ACLU has posted a list of reasons why this so-called "compromise" bill will broaden Bush's illegal spy powers, as well as grant telecom immunity. The telecom immunity aspect is only one part of this awful bill that shouldn't be allowed to pass.

Obama has promised to filibuster telecom immunity. He also ought to promise to defend the constitution. He should vote no on this bill next week. It's not enough for him to say he won't support one portion of this bill, telecom immunity. The entire bill represents a gutting of our 4th Amendment rights.

For example, from the ACLU: "H.R. 6304 permits the government to conduct mass, untargeted surveillance of all communications coming into and out of the United States, without any individualized review, and without any finding of wrongdoing."

Senator Dodd also ought to denounce this bill. And both Obama and Dodd ought to filibuster it.

Leslie

by Muons on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:57:31 PM EST
This is a moment that is all about judgment. It is also a window in time of the campaign, with the primary over, the conventions on the horizon, no candidate debates scheduled, where Obama could step onto the floor of the senate and take a stance for the constitution and a window into the leadership stance he has promised.

Yes, that stance would open him up for attacks from the right, certainly. But this is also a constitutional crisis that begs for a deomonstration of something beyond, just words.


by mainsailset on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 03:14:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, Bush has promised to veto the bill if it doesn't include immunity. If Obama succeeds in cutting out immunity (and he's probably the only one who could make it happen), it could be great strategy and strong leadership: send it to Bush and let the GOP take any heat for torpedoing the bill.

Given Obama's wishywashy statement, I'm not optimistic that he'll go all the way for liberty, but he will if he doesn't want to see the air go out of his campaign. He hasn't been stupid so far, so I'm holding onto some hope.

What's maybe most disappointing to me is that this constitutional scholar could say such clueless crap about this atrocity the Dems are peddling as a "compromise". Did Obama even read the bill? Or does his first change have to be in his circle of advisors?

Bush is "the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." --Former Nixon counsel John Dean

by DaveW on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 03:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This whole "compromise" bill could very well turn out to be a cleverly crafted game to play on the Netroots and the Republicans, who both think they can dictate what the debate will be. Wouldn't surprise me. And judging by the Net-Wide Freakout I witnessed yesterday, it may be a good time for Obama to teach us a little lesson. Tempers were so hot, I was afraid to really comment much.

Maybe we'll see a dramatic speech about the injustice of granting telco immunity from civil lawsuits (that's all it is, they're still liable for any criminal charges, if persued by a future administration.) Then some fiery debate and then, win or lose, Obama makes clear that any terrorist episodes before he's President will be the fault of the Republicans alone because the Democrats made a real attempt to go half-way on this "compromise." No one should be able to call him "Soft on Terrorism" after that.

Let's watch the drama unfold in the Senate next week. Could be a good show. It's gonna be a bumpy ride to November and we all need to learn to have a little faith in Obama's strategy. We've got to get our guy elected before we can fix things and the blowup yesterday showed that we are NOT prepared to allow ourselves to win even a sure thing.

by RandyH on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 05:24:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by AliceDem on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:29:12 PM EST
"Why would any sane person support such tyranny?"

Many did not read this bill before they voted.

They had no time to do so. Most likely relied on leadership dictates.

Glenn Greenwald

What's particularly amazing about this whole process is that the House leadership unveiled this bill for the first time today -- and then scheduled the vote on it for tomorrow. No hearings. Nothing. They all have less than 24 hours to "read" the bill and decide whether to eviscerate the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment. I recall Democrats long complaining that they were only given one day before being forced back in September, 2001 to vote on the Patriot Act, yet here they are -- even without the excuse of the 9/11 attack -- doing that to themselves. I'm sure their votes tomorrow will be the by-product of a very conscientious, thoughtful and diligent review of this lengthy bill -- just as thoughtful as Pelosi's review was before she whimsically pronounced that it's all just six of one, half dozen of the other.

Those who did read the bill, either misunderstood or were gripped by fear and a dry up of telecom lobby money.

They're now all partners in Corpgov Limited.

We elected chickenheads.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:52:27 PM EST
What was the rational behind this compromise? Couldn't they wait after the election? I mean talk about stupid.
by Micheline on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 02:09:51 PM EST
.
Obama with a 15-point lead over McCain

A new Newsweek poll shows that he has a substantial double-digit lead, 51 percent to 36 percent, over McCain among registered voters nationwide.

The Harris Poll: Obama's Lead over McCain Widens to Double Digits

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 02:24:45 PM EST
Booman writes: "Why would any sane person support such tyranny?"

Good question. And the people who are supporting it aren't insane. So maybe everyone's vision of the battlefield isn't how the battlefield actually is. Who are you missing?

by Bob In Pacifica on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 02:34:17 PM EST
Right. As so often happens -- and this is hardly surprising -- we don't know the (immediate) back story and we don't know the strategy, I do think the extreme trashing of Obama is unwarranted, and probably a lot of it is coming from trolls.
     Still, I think it's a good idea to contribute to Blue America Pac vs Retroactive Immunity -- which has now, after nearly reaching $300,000 within about three days, upped the goal to $500K.
http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
by priscianus jr on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 10:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, here is the back story according to Pravda...er, I mean, Time magazine:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1816911,00.html

Do you think Nancy really has her finger on the pulse of America? I mean, America 2008? I dunno, maybe she does. I think more likely she's using that as an excuse for stuff she'd rather not talk about. But one way or the other, this may be the pivotal question in all this: whether or not Pelosi's argument accurately reflects where America is right now.

by priscianus jr on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 10:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
l wouldn't count on arlen to vote against it...regardless of his rhetoric...he's rather well known for having a big mouth and no balls.

you know that better than l, boo.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 02:58:59 PM EST
by AliceDem on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 03:14:29 PM EST
I agree with Boo about the money. I had a call from Obamas camp asking for a donation yesterday.  I told her to call me after the FISA bill went to the senate and I see how he voted.
by judiper on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 05:00:37 PM EST
This is Bizzaro World here.

You really think Obama is running for President of the Blogoshere.  

You think every representative in Congress is representing you.

Ever think, there are some Dems in the House that represent Conservative districts.  And this is more what their voters wanted.

Also.  You really think 98% of America really cares about a bill called FISA.  Think 98% of America would even know what it stands for.

So hold on to your precious money.   Whine all day and vote for Nader.  No one really cares.  Obama will be the next President.  And he won't be spying on you.

So quit acting like he is Dick Nixon and you are on some list.

Patriotism and religion, like whiskey, is best used in moderation. Mark Twain

by skeeters2525 on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 06:03:11 PM EST
Some Lord Acton quotes:

Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is the highest political end.

At all times sincere friends of freedom have been rare, and its triumphs have been due to minorities....

By liberty I mean the assurance that every man shall be protected in doing what he believes is his duty against the influence of authority and majorities, custom and opinion.

I could give a rip if Obama spies on me.  If the state is empowered to spy on its citizens then our citizens are not free.

by BooMan on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 06:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because they are greedy for power.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

they are totally sane: they want that power for themselves.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 at 10:05:38 AM EST


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