Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Serious Question

by BooMan
Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 02:13:30 PM EST

I get the fact that Bill Kristol and John Bolton really, really want to see Iran get bombed. My question is: why are they talking about this so much in the midst of a political campaign when polling shows the American people oppose bombing Iran.

I can think of a couple of possibilities that would explain their bellicosity. The first is that they are simply goading the Bush administration to take action. The second is that they are simply trying to lay the groundwork or change public opinion. But, it seems to me as though they're doing John McCain a big disservice.

Serious Question | 25 comments (25 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 2)

william, the bloody kristol's on a roll today.

via RawStrory:

President Bush is more likely to attack Iran if he thinks Senator Barack Obama may be elected, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol told FOX News Sunday morning.
.
.
.
WALLACE: So, you're suggesting that he might in fact, if Obama's going to win the election, either before or after the election, launch a military strike?
KRISTOL: I don't know. I mean, I think he would worry about it. On the other hand, you can't -- it's hard to make foreign policy based on guesses of election results. I think Israel is worried though. I mean, what is, what signal goes to Ahmadinejad if Obama wins on a platform of unconditional negotiations and with an obvious reluctance to even talk about using military force.

listen carefully at the 1:55 mark for this gaffe:

..."not just israel using nuclear weapons...[mumble stumble]...using force against iran"...

what a piece of work these pnaCONs are.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:25:10 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

Think the Israeli apologists at dailykos will mention that slip.

Israel using nukes.

Bush Plan: Deregulate oil speculation, let I/P sink into chaos, attack Iraq & Iran which gives the excuse to drill ANWR and offshore.

by Mattes on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 09:27:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 2)

Looking very possible that Obama will win, so they're trying to carry out as many of their projects as possible in the next 6 months (most of which seems to pertain to oil profits) - drilling in ANWR and offshore, creating more chaos in ME to make it difficult to withdraw troops. I wonder about an excuse to postpone the elections, but imo that's more about staying away from The Hague than remaining in DC, so thinking that they're getting immunity they may just take the money and run (to Paraguay)

Viva Obama

by Errol on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 07:52:16 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 1)

a very poor attempt to swing the election.

All they have to offer is war and fear.

They should heed the IAEA chief, El Baradei... the ME will be a fire ball. But what do they care since they'll not be suiting up.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 02:54:25 PM EST

John McCain may be a write off (none / 0)

in their books. On the other hand, if Bush bombs Iran and enough chaos ensues then elections can be postponed ....indefinitely.

These guys are not interested in a constitutional government. They are not interested in what the public thinks. They think, and have been somewhat successful at it, that they can manipulate the public into any damn thing they want.

Grandma Jo

by glitterscale (glitteryscale@yahoo.com) on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:04:27 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 1)

We bomb Iran and gas goes to 8
$8 a gallon the next day.

A crippling mistake in more ways than one for Republicans and Americans.

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:30:21 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (4.00 / 2)

Does the 8 dollars come before or after Russia and China retaliate against us? Russia in particular has warned us repeatedly about our idiotic Iran bullshit.

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi

by chocolate ink on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:50:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why would China retaliate? (none / 1)

all they have to do is decline to buy our T-Bills.

by AliceDem on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:54:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why would China retaliate? (4.00 / 2)

l don't think ci was referring to military retaliation.

whether BushCo™, or their surrogate israel, attack iran the ME will turn into a fire storm. iran will close the straits of hormuz, in all likelihood inflicting massive losses on the naval armada in the gulf, the oil will stop flowing. all russia and china have to do is dump their dollars, sit back and watch as the us disintegrates from economic chaos, and their positions as the new "powers that be" is solidified.

you can't field a military with no money or fuel.

this idea isn't MAD redux, it's suicide.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 04:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why would China retaliate? (4.00 / 3)

thanks dada, yeah that's why I used the word retaliate instead saying they'd bomb us-I really wasn't that clear. I don't know exactly what Russia/China would do although you laid it out pretty well-I'm sure they both have plans in place if bushco really does do something this suicidal.

I doubt Russia or China have been warning us just for the heck of it. And who knows what coalitions they have been working for this very reason.(didn't russia and china conduct first ever war games together a few years ago?)

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi

by chocolate ink on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 04:50:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why would China retaliate? (none / 0)

hey alicedem-thanks for bringing up the t-bill deal and help making me clarify(or rather dada) my rather unclear statement. It continues of course to be a freaken shame that our 'media' perpetrates this Iran bullshit all evidence to the contrary and that other countries media pretty much knows better and covers this more fairly-i.e. that their is little evidence of malfeasance on the part of Iran. It makes no difference that Iran might not be our biggest ally or supporter and we should keep an eye on them. Even if they are secretly working on some kind of nuclear program that doesn't mean they will use it. I'd say if they are it's more along the lines of a self defense mechanism-not saying it's right-to counteract Israel and all the other countries surrounding them with nuclear capabilities.

The general public is once again being led down the garden path by the bush administration with a compliant 'news' media. The media could read the same reports anyone of us on the net can they choose not to(they might get fired and lose their big time celebrity paychecks and status)

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi

by chocolate ink on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 06:47:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why would China retaliate? (none / 0)

I believe they have been selling dollars for a while.

Bush Plan: Deregulate oil speculation, let I/P sink into chaos, attack Iraq & Iran which gives the excuse to drill ANWR and offshore.

by Mattes on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 09:28:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

JB Wrong on N. Korea (none / 1)

The World According to John Bolton

JB: I don't think North Korea is ever going to voluntarily give up its nuclear weapons. I don't think you can chat Kim Jong Il out of what he sees as his trump card against Japan, the United States, South Korea, and others. So, in a sense, the entire six-party talks are a way of subsidizing Kim Jong Il with tangible economic and political benefits, relegitimizing him after his ballistic missile and nuclear weapons test of last year, and propping up a regime whose two main objectives are staying in power and keeping its nuclear weapons. So from that point of view, I don't think the six-party talks can solve the North Korean nuclear problem. I think they're perpetuating it.

North Korea Agrees for New Round Six-party Talks

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:33:00 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

This is a simple threat.

Vote for McCain or Bush bombs Iran and the only the rich will survive.

by smkngman3 on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 03:45:49 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I've become cynical enough to believe that they see their opportunity for profit disappearing with the loss of the White House. They've always been blind to consequences. I don't know if they're really that single-minded, or if they believe their friends and wealth will insulate them against whatever comes.

They've done the "bull in the china shop" so long, and it's worked pretty well for them. They probably just think bulling through will work one more time.

by SusanD on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 04:10:13 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

Kristol & Bolton are war addicts and their personas are no different than listening to a crack addict justify his crimes. Both are only looking to their next high.

by mainsailset on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 04:12:29 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

So why can't they just go out and say play paintball instead?

Why do the rest of us have to suffer because of their inadequacies?

by ericy on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 09:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

There's a third possibility:

It's going to happen, and they don't care who is in office next, because once they start a war, they know we can't end it just like that.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 05:28:40 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

To drive oil prices higher....so they can open up ANWR and offshore drilling.

Bush Plan: Deregulate oil speculation, let I/P sink into chaos, attack Iraq & Iran which gives the excuse to drill ANWR and offshore.

by Mattes on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 09:20:07 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

doesn't the current run up in oil prices look like a setup?

Viva Obama

by Errol on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 at 09:51:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I am convinced it is. And people like that blogger from france must be making a killing.

Bush Plan: Deregulate oil speculation, let I/P sink into chaos, attack Iraq & Iran which gives the excuse to drill ANWR and offshore.

by Mattes on Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 at 12:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

when Bush talked with the Saudis he probably said "hey, good work guys, we've got a great thing going here! we're on the verge of drilling in ANWR"

Viva Obama

by Errol on Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 at 01:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

If the nation is at war with Iran at the time of the election, does revulsion to the Republican brand trump McCain's advantage in actual military experience?

Obama is hitting McCain's strength's and many of his supporters seem happily convinced he'll win that argument. If things stay in the realm of debate, perhaps that is true. But if there are bombs over Tehran, the equation changes a bit. Biography will mean much more than it does now.

I think this election hinges on whether or not there is war or palpable and imminent threat of war. The drumbeat now may just be a fear tactic, but if it doesn't work, it leaves real war to preserve power.

But you answer this question: If all you had to do was spend other people's money that you have in piles and send other people's kids to die [on some horrible reality tv show] in order to retain control of the most powerful nation on the planet, wouldn't you?

Viva Presidente Ezequiel - Aquí no hay quien viva!

by anarchronarchist (mincers (-at-) hotmail (-dot-) com) on Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 at 02:24:16 PM EST

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

Me? No, I wouldn't.

by BooMan on Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 at 02:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Serious Question (none / 0)

I would, and then enslave the world.

Viva Presidente Ezequiel - Aquí no hay quien viva!

by anarchronarchist (mincers (-at-) hotmail (-dot-) com) on Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 at 04:39:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Serious Question | 25 comments (25 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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