Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

No Big Shock

by BooMan
Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:02:29 PM EST

The blogosphere has formed a circular-firing squad just in time for the general election.

No Big Shock | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

What else is there to do? Slow news, summertime, some of the smarter people are on vacation, disruptive assholes aren't, no one wants to be responsible for what they blogged 3 months ago...happens every year like clockwork.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:18:04 PM EST

Blogoshere unprepared (4.00 / 2)

and hurt by Obama's run to the right after supporting him so strongly in the primaries.

Move-on has to be feeling like an abused dog right now. Obama is risking apathy in his base if he keeps this up.

John McCain hates children

by magster on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:21:05 PM EST

Move-on's response (4.00 / 3)

should be to reactivate their 527 and justify it by saying Obama has kicked them off the team and they'll say whatever they want to about McCain. Same with Vote-Vets.

John McCain hates children

by magster on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Move-on's response (4.00 / 4)

I didn't realize what you meant until I read this.

And you say the blogosphere is responsible for a "circular firing squad"?

hey here's a tip for Obama: stop attacking your allies. You gotta figure the MoveOn supporters, who ya know, told moveon to endorse fucking Hopey McChange, are feeling pretty disrespected right now. You know, that whole No one takes progressives seriously and all that?

But yet it's the blogosphere that set up a circular firing squad.

Oh, OK. And people say I smoke too much pot.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:52:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Move-on's response (4.00 / 2)

My thoughts precisely. Obama trains his fire on his allies and they don't like it. I would be upset if I hadn't stopped caring about the Presidential months ago.

by AliceDem on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 04:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Move-on's response (none / 0)

Who in the HELL is pulling him around by the nose?

by Cee on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 09:02:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bunch O Crap (none / 0)

The 527 was a place for donations bigger than 2300. The whole point of Obama's "reform" was to eliminate those donors from influence. He didn't force MoveOn, but asked them. Because they believe in people power, they conformed.

All this nit-picking driving me crazy. Someone above is right; some people don't have enough to do. They are posting to get attention, not to change the country!

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:38:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And Move-on's reward is Obama's middle finger (4.00 / 1)

If MoveOn thinks it can promote its message by reforming its 527, or it doesn't believe Obama will say what needs to be said about McCain, then MoveOn should do what it needs to do.

John McCain hates children

by magster on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Move-on's reward is Obama's middle finger (4.00 / 2)

I think Obama picked a really bad time to eschew public financing if this is his game plan. He was relying on the enthusiasm of millions of small donors, and a lot of them are not going to be there for him after these plays. Unless, of course, Hillary's big-time donors are really, really big.

by Delia on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 05:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Move-on's reward is Obama's middle finger (none / 0)

Obama is also gonna lose the AA support too.

Here is an expression of the thinking

I wanted the Clintons gone and Obama is sure loading up on their entourage. Same old same old. He has turned on a dime. Obama a Progressive? No, more like a small c Conservative.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 08:48:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Move-on's reward is Obama's middle finger (3.25 / 4)

"middle finger"? Don't you think that's a wee bit extreme?

"Mov(ing) to the Right"?? Oh, come on.

First of all, the thing that's got everybody (me included) all exercised is FISA, and that hasn't played out yet. Jeez, do you keep a daily "left-o-meter" that shows how every single statement that Obama or one of his proxies makes affects his standing in the political spectrum? That's what's knows as "being stupid" and is little different from the way the media turns the entire campaign into one big horse race, examining minutiae.

When Barack says he no longer supports universal health care, or suddenly changes his campaign theme to "borders, language, culture", then I'll worry about him "turning to the right". Until then, I'm going to give him a little room to win the freaking election before I'm ready to kick him to the curb and vote Nader or write in Hilary.

by PopeRatzo (PopeRatzo AT G Mail Dot Com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 04:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Move-on's reward is Obama's middle finger (none / 0)

Aren't you being a bit daft? How many times do you have to be kicked in the head before you recognize it as such? Maybe that's part of the problem. You've been kicked in the head so many times you lost the ability to even determine when you're being kicked in the head.

Are all Obama supporters this delusional? Man, what a bunch of suckers. He insults the largest grass roots anti-war advocacy group in this country and you say it's those of us on the left that are being extreme and overreacting? That we should just take it like good liberals while Obama gives our enemies everything they want. As he kicks us in the head?

Boy. Obama really pulled the wool over the eyes of some of you suckers.

How does attacking MoveOn, Wes Clark, and progressives in general help Obama win the general? Do you really have such little faith in liberal ideas? Do you not believe the polling that shows more Americans supporting liberal ideas about war? You buy this crap that Democrats need to move to the right to win? Tell us your brilliant strategy and how it will work this time when it didn't work for Gore or Kerry or pretty much any other lame-ass Democrat. Did you support Joe Lieberman for president? Haven't we seen this play over and over again with the same painful results?

And FISA hasn't been played out yet? Are you one of the last imbeciles in this country that is still holding on to the mistaken belief that Obama has some super secret plan but isn't sharing it with us yet? Anyone with an ounce of political wisdom knows Obama doesn't give a flying fuck about the 4th Amendment or decided to horse trade it away for some amorphous political benefit. There evidently are a few dead-ender Obamabots, such as yourself, that don't see the writing on the way but let me make this simple for you; Obama sold out on FISA. It's over. He's frittered it away. We don' t know the exact reason, whether he agrees with it on the merits or is making some terrible political calculation. But he's done it and most of us reality-based people see it for what it is.

Man. Democrats are screwed with idiots like this on their side The end of the party can't come quick enough for me.

by SFHawkguy on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 05:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Move-on's reward is Obama's middle finger (none / 0)

Don't really see how "being a bit daft" earns a 1 rating, especially from someone who likes to call names.

by eeblet (bethbudwig at g mail) on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 at 08:12:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Move-on's response (none / 0)

Cocked and loaded, eh?

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 04:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogoshere unprepared (4.00 / 3)

BWHAHAHAHAHA...the blogosphere is always unprepared. Self-important jackasses, who protect their hopes on people will always be hurt. Problem is, the liberal blogosphere has a very solid history of only wanting to see what they want to see. I still don't think that Obama "ran to the right", he's done nothing unexpected, except to people who were busy tying blindfolds on one another.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogoshere unprepared (4.00 / 2)

What base?

Oh...you m,an the leftiness blogs?

How many votes can you deliver, again?

How many red and swing states?

C'mon...wise up.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 05:57:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (4.00 / 2)

you have written, I think correctly, that Obama moving right was inevitable. I think complaints about it were equally inevitable.

the blogosphere hadn't even had time to recover from primary derangement - it's barely been over for two weeks! - and then the fisa mess hit us. Progressives who are upset are probably less upset with Obama than with congressional democrats.

of course there are some who bought a little too much of the image and are having to learn that Obama never was as progressive as they hoped he was.

the end of the primaries has allowed the "STFU and vote democratic" crowd to take control again and they're doing much of the shooting. I will certainly vote democratic but legitimate criticism shouldn't be written off as "purity trolling" or "concern trolling".

The Four Horsemen of Bushism: War, Corruption, Hypocrisy and Greed

by esquimaux (esquimaux1 at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 04:11:41 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (4.00 / 5)

The more I think about this, the more bogus the whole line about "the blogosphere forms a circular firing squad" seems.

After all, no one from Progblogistan grabbed Obama by the short ones and said "do a complete 180 on FISA". he did that ALL BY HIMSELF.

And no one grabbed Obama by the scrotum and told him "condemn Clark's comments in such a way that you emphasize and amplify GOP hissy-fit material against Democrats". Did you see atrios do that? Cus I missed that post.

And no progressives I know told Obama, on pain of death or GBH to slam MoveOn and those "counter-culture 1960s types" (which he knows ALL about, having been 8 in 1969). That was his idea so far as I know, or his campaign's idea.

And yet, when a moveon member like me gets upset about being disrespected (and let's not forget who skipped that vote), it's circular firing squad.

or when someone who believes in strong democrats who take the fight to the GOP's face is unhappy when the Democratic nominee traffics in right-wing "maccain's a hero" myths, it's a circular firing squad.

And let's not forget the FISA sell-out.

I don't think it's a circular firing squad at all: I think it's a perfectly rational reaction when the candidate in who we've trusted the next 4-8 years turns on us. No wonder no one takes progressives seriously

It's like the crude joke about what a fat chick and a moped have in common: they're both fun to ride until your friends see you.

Maybe someone should come up with something similar for progressives. And it'll be funny because it's true.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 06:01:31 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

He didn't do a fucking 180 on FISA. ot yet anyway. Keep your shirt on.

by priscianus jr on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

ready on the right:

ready on the left:

ready on the firing line......BANG

and just this weekend, Bush tossed a lit match into Iran...

it's only gonna get worse...

geeeesh

"what a wonderful world"- Louis Armstrong

by infidelpig (rdewaynetaylor01@earthlink.net) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:18:54 PM EST

really? (none / 0)

how so?

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:24:43 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

First it's a circle jerk, then it's a circular firing squad. Time to circle the wagons.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin -SLB-

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 03:51:56 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 04:02:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (none / 1)

Those of you who have donated to Obama in the past have undoubtedly gotten follow-up emails. If you feel so moved, I suggest you do what I just did: politely refuse to donate and tell the campaign why.

by Joe Bourgeois on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 06:12:55 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

MyBo anti-FISA group up to 5000+ apparently. Way to kill the enthusiasm from the base. They're also screwing up the campaign.

I was told by someone in a position to know that in North Dakota Obama has the person who did a lot of the organizing in the line up to the caucuses stuck in Montana and has placed an all-new team in ND for the general election without getting any information from this person.

Caucuses aren't like general elections but people who vote there are going to be a ripe potential for caucuses. So I'm questioning their tactical decisions as well as his spineless caves on FISA, Clark, and sickening denunciation of MoveOn.

He's sure showing how much he wants change, or wants to stand up for what's right.

Heh, I guess I am questioning his patriotism.

by MNPundit on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 07:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

that line should read "ripe potential for general election groudn troops."

by MNPundit on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 07:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

They caved on Wesley Clark?

by Cee on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 09:04:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

Obama tossing him under the bus.

by MNPundit on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 at 01:00:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think commenters understand (none / 0)

the relationship between Move-on and Move-on PAC. The former will continue unfettered. The latter is a vehicle to channel big donations.

Obama has NEVER been for big donations. Why are we even talking about this?

Obama has asked MoveOn to buy into his philosophy of people power. Why is this an issue?

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 08:57:07 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (none / 0)

The bullets have been zinging. But these are the ones that caught my eye (and ire):

You took a gratuitous shot at Dennis Kucinich (again).

Obama took a shot at General Wesley Clark (and not too long after taking a gratuitous shot at MoveOn).

As digby points out, the Democratic party desperately needs more fighters like General Clark:

"Wes Clark is a very special person in the Democratic Party and should be highly valued. They don't have many people like him. He not only brings national security credibility and experience in a unique way, he has proven himself to be a tireless worker for Democratic candidates and causes for the last four years. He is very, very smart and would be an asset in any Democratic administration. Indeed, I think it was assumed that he would be in any Democratic administration. Certainly, one would think any Democrat would want him. "

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/grand-hissy-redux-by-digby-i-suppose.html

What in the world are the Obama campaign and you Obama bloggers trying to prove? You call this a circular firing squad? I say you guys decided to take out the best fighters on your left flank. It's called Clintonian third way triangulation in political terms. You cut and run from the real battle, then unexpectedly shoot your allies in the head, and finally run to the enemy's arms and surrender. That's your strategy? Cause I thought it was going to be a lot more hopier strategy or something.

It's very clear that the Democratic party is long overdue for a circular firing squad.

by SFHawkguy on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 09:04:11 PM EST

Re: No Big Shock (none / 1)

Count me out of this strategy.

I blasted MoveOn for the betrayus ad at the time and periodically ever since.

I have no problem with Obama refusing to endorse Clark's comments.

I have no problem with Obama distancing himself from the betrayus ad.

I have a problem with cry babies that attack the candidate over stupid bullshit.

FISA? Yeah. I've got a major problem. The rest of this shit is petty wanking.

We don't need some faux respect and we don't need out egos stroked. We need victory. I've never had a lower opinion of the intelligence of the blogosphere than I have today.

by BooMan on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 10:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

FISA (none / 0)

A tricky one...I agree with you, but...

the administration WILL create, reveal or facilitate by neglect an incident before the election in order to create fear. If they can say it happened because we couldn't "hear" the clues, there won't be time to refute it.

Even the administration agrees this law doesn't preclude criminal charges. A civil suit (that we would all pay for) isn't the answer.

My preference? Agree with Olbermann. Make a clear commitment to follow criminal activity wherever the evidence leads and (my own preference) identify an AG in advance, like Edwards, with the firm and acknowledged intent to kick ass and take names.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 at 07:23:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Big Shock (none / 1)

Obama's better than McCain and he's better than Clinton -- so I'll pull the lever for him in the voting booth. He never courted the netroots, but he was the beneficiary of netroots enthusiasm after Edwards dropped out.

I don't know how many more "Sister Souljah moments" Obama will have before November. However, the more often he disses his base, the less enthusiasm I'll have to do more for his campaign than pull a lever.

A Progressive Christian perspective on I/P at Beyond Bethlehem

by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 10:02:34 PM EST

Obama has not attacked (none / 0)

I'm frankly wondering why you write. You aren't thinking first.

Obama did NOT attack Move-on. He said: "No thanks" to the PAC efforts, because that's what he believes. That's not Move-on, it's a separate entity entitled to collect larger donations than 2300. This is totally compatable with what he's said from the start.

And I listened carefully. He did NOT attack Clark. He did affirm that questioning patriotism was off limits. Only MSM has linked that to Clark, who said absolutely nothing about patriotism but was discriminating among kinds of experience.

Write about the primary sources, not the MSM spin. Remember, they have absolutely nothing to talk about these days...so they make it up.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 at 07:20:27 AM EST

No Big Shock | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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