Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan

by BooMan
Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:43:23 PM EST

Pelosi takes a risk:

Washington, D.C. — Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued the following statement today as Congress and the White House work to craft legislation to address the crisis in our financial markets:
“Congress will respond to the financial markets crisis by taking action this week in a bipartisan manner that will protect the taxpayers’ interests. The Administration’s $700 billion proposal does not include the necessary safeguards. Democrats believe a responsible solution should include independent oversight, protections for homeowners and constraints on excessive executive compensation.
“We will not simply hand over a $700 billion blank check to Wall Street and hope for a better outcome. Democrats will act responsibly to insulate Main Street from Wall Street.
“As we proceed to deal with this crisis, this is clear recognition that the party is over for the Bush Administration’s anything goes, failed economic policies that have damaged our economy, undermined the middle class and further pointed out the need for a New Direction.”

She must be afraid of the mighty Atrios.

Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (4.00 / 3)

I know that sound she's making. It's the petulant whine a child makes before its parents force it to eat its peas.

Translated: nancy pelosi is stamping her little trotter now, but Steny Hoyer and the Blue Dogs will be along soon to make her do "the serious thing" and eat her peas.

"Eat her peas" translated: make the American taxpayer eat Big Shitpile.

Isn't that what happened with impeachment? And subpoena power? and ending the war? And FISA?

I don't take Nancy Pelosi or her promises seriously at all. She's faking you out Booman, don't believe it.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:50:51 PM EST

She's afraid of everything. (4.00 / 2)

I agree with her on oversight and executive compensation. As to the "homeowners", fuck 'em. They knew they were signing commitments they'd never be able to fulfill. Rewarding them for bad judgement and greed is no better than rewarding the "suits" for the same things.

by Ed J on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:53:55 PM EST

Re: She's afraid of everything. (none / 0)

..."As to the "homeowners", fuck 'em. They knew they were signing commitments they'd never be able to fulfill. Rewarding them for bad judgement and greed is no better than rewarding the "suits" for the same things."

you have no clue do you? Don't blame the homeowner.

don't drink the sub-prime kool-aid. Sounds good to blame the homeowner, covers the shit the banksters in NY brought us and I may add, exported to the rest of the world.

"It's the derivatives, Stupid"

derivatives - high risk credit bets against residential and commercial mortgages, caps, floors, auto loans, student loans, swaps, credit card balances, accounts receivables, options, farmers futures, janitors pails and caps and anything not yet made, bought on 95% margin, even though the law says nobody can buy securities without putting up half the price. They were unregulated in the shadow banking system. Greed ensued.

Six years ago Warren Buffet, the Oracle of Omaha, warned these investment products were Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction

"Charlie and I are of one mind in how we feel about derivatives and the trading activities that go with them: We view them as time bombs, both for the parties that deal in them and the economic system,"

Gimme a break. These derivatives are what felled the shadow banking system and AIGs and that in turn took down the greedy conventional banksters who participated by having these cooked up toxic "assets" off balance sheet.

Highly complex instruments and unregulated, it's reported CEOs did not understand (derivatives) what they were signing off on so how do you expect the average homeowner to know their mortgages would be flipped and leveraged into derivatives by the Wall Street banksters at a ratio 35:1.

The banksters are the ones being rewarded for bad judgment. CDS (credit default swaps) - derivatives - in 2001 at $900 billion and skyrocketed to 45.1 trillion in 2007...and that's just one product in the derivatives tent. It's a quadrillion problem. Grim.

The super rich got richer.

Demented.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 09:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'M demented? (none / 0)

Read my post and show me where I put all the blame on the homeowners.

And, by the way, would you also want to use your tax dollars to bail out some rube who gets taken by a used car dealer?

by Ed J on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 06:38:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'M demented? (none / 0)

My reply targeted your statement in blockquote.

It's not the homeowner who was dumb.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 11:43:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'M demented? (none / 0)

Wish I could backtrack to the source, but there is apparently some Republican or right wing opinions that indeed it was the fault of the homeowners. Anything to escape the blame of thirty years of pure Freidman free market economics. Almost a de jevu 1929 catastrophe, and there are many Democrats who are buying into it.

But blaming the homeowner, who was snoockered by a bank to believe he had no worries, is hardly where one would go to sort out the culpability. Try Freidman to begin with, then Reagan, then the Clinton Republican Lites, like Bob Rubin (careful Obama), and then the Cheney=Bush administration.

We should be thankful that we got out of the past eight years without losing Social Security. No doubt if that progam went under, we would be blaming elderly retirees.

by shergald on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 01:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think you have been reading carefully (none / 1)

In many cases, they were swindled into taking sub-primes when they qualified for primes. There was a LOT of swindling going on, because the fee structure was tilted to the originators and away from the servicers. This whole crisis was absolutely fucked by fees that were really upside down.

And that means that many homeowners are in deals that are much more expensive than they needed to be.

by dataguy on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 09:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think you have been reading carefully (4.00 / 2)

Listen, I had someone try to hook me into one of those sub prime deals, and those predators came after ME! I wasn't even looking for a mortgage. They called me one night and told me if I refinanced with them they would lower my interest rate, lower my monthly payment, pay off all that high interest revolving credit they knew I had (they were wrong, I did not and do not owe a cent in revolving credit - I pay off my credit cards in full every month), and generally make my life heaven on earth.

Of course, what they offered me was a variable rate mortgage that had a starting rate two points higher than the fixed rate I was paying, and that could potentially go as high or higher than my credit card rates. And of course the monthly payment was triple what I was paying. When I asked them what part of that I was supposed to be jumping up and down with excitement about, they went into full hard sell mode. The guy kept calling me back every day for weeks leaving voice mail messages about how he had a new offer he just knew I would be thrilled with. He kept on calling week after week even though I never returned any of his calls.

So, for someone who is a first-time home buyer with a big dream of owning a home and no experience or knowledge about how all this works, it is not that difficult to imagine how they might get sucked in by one of those guys!

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 09:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Absolutely (none / 1)

These fucking assholes are the same rat-poison bastards who run the penny stock rooms, where they call up old people who are not thinking clearly and get them to buy 125,000 of garbage. But that stuff is illegal, and when you are caught you do many years.

In this case, lying about the availability of mortgages is not illegal.

by dataguy on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 01:17:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Absolutely (none / 0)

In all fairness what they were doing WAS entirely legal, though not terribly ethical. I can't imagine what kind of an idiot with a good credit rating would jump all over the chance to trade a fixed rate mortgage with a decent, if not phenomenal interest rate and a reasonable monthly payment for a variable rate mortgage that starts two points above their current fixed rate, could go higher than their credit card interest, and a tripling of their monthly interest rate (at one point I told him that I was neither desperate nor stupid, and he should not waste any more time with me). However, there are lots of first time buyers out there, I guess, who do not have good credit, and who are filled with dreams, really clueless, and can be taken in.

And I also know a few people who started out with interest only or variable rate mortgages, and were smart enough to work to build good credit ratings, and then refinance to a fixed rate mortgage before their less-than-prime mortgages got out of hand. So, they were able to get into the housing market without losing everything. So, if one knows what one is getting into and how to handle it, it can work out OK.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 01:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (4.00 / 2)

"We will not simply hand over a $700 billion blank check to Wall Street and hope for a better outcome. Democrats will act responsibly to insulate Main Street from Wall Street."

You've been handing Bush blank checks for years, Nancy.

Just like we have no reason to trust Bush that he has America's interests at heart on this, we have no reason to believe you'll do anything other than fold like f'ckin lawn chairs in a tornado.

Get in front of the American people tomorrow and say this plan is dead, and that you're going to stay in session until you work out a real solution.

Let's start with that, minimum.

Otherwise this is FISA all over again.

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:54:56 PM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 1)

We cannot allow Paulsen to sell the assts the treasury buys to selected insiders. The treasury should keep those mortgage backed bonds to maturity, not sell them to fat cats for a fraction of their value. Look at the Bear, Stearns deal.

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:58:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

interesting that Goldman Sachs, Paulson's old firm, remains whole and untouched.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 09:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (4.00 / 2)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bank_change

Goldman and Morgan Stanley are now Bank Holding Companies allowing them to take deposits and borrow from the FED. To me seems to make a bad problem worst.

I don't want a tax cut, I want a job.

by americanforliberty on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 10:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 1)

that's just a sleigh of hand to calm the markets. Good PR move intent on participating full hog at the begging bowl

throughout, Goldman Sachs remains whole and untouched. They've always escaped and benefited from ALL things financial. Treasury Sec came from Goldman. The new Governor of the central Bank of Canada is from Goldman Sachs. and I could cite others.

Hmmm, and the gaming of the markets. So where did all the money, the Trillions, go? the MacMansions, islands, Rolls and Bentleys and billions in bonuses

Now we're being asked to pay for the collapse. That's allowing the banksters to have their cake, eat it too and ask for seconds.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 11:41:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

Also Robert Rubin from Goldman, Sachs. See the wikipedia item on Rubin.

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 09:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 1)

hopefully, because if she's afraid of W and his 28% approval rating, then she too needs to grow a pair.

I don't want a tax cut, I want a job.

by americanforliberty on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:45:17 PM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

Nancy can't do this unless the caucus will hold together and back her. It's not about her she-nads.

by BooMan on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:49:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

well maybe this will hold the caucus together..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/09/21/bcnlehman121.xml

Lehman Bros. NY, employees get share of 2.5 billion bonus

I don't want a tax cut, I want a job.

by americanforliberty on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 1)

The lady knows her stuff. It's not a risk, opposition lining up:

Nancy Pelosi will have a lot of GOP help...because this crisis is not related only to housing:
WSJ
"But among both Democratic and Republican leaders, there's concern that the more populist tilt on Capitol Hill could pose difficulties. The biggest problem is likely to be in the House, where conservative Republicans are uneasy with the size of the bailout and the scope of powers being given to Treasury, while rank-and-file Democrats are calling for fresh assistance for distressed homeowners."
Rep. Jeb Hensarling, a Texas Republican, said there are "widespread concerns" among House conservatives. Mr. Hensarling said most haven't yet taken a public position. But he suggested "a number may very well" oppose the plan. "It's a very, very tough vote," he said. Mr. Hensarling expressed concerns about the cost and scope, but said he is keeping an open mind.
----
Economists including Krugman are skeptical
:
No deal
"I hate to say this, but looking at the plan as leaked, I have to say no deal. Not unless Treasury explains, very clearly, why this is supposed to work, other than through having taxpayers pay premium prices for lousy assets."

-----
Sen. Leahy, "we won't be fooled again," and FWIW Spector says no rush.

-----
Rep. Barney Frank Seeks More Oversight and some on Wall Street agree.
"``As much as I disagree with Barney Frank on many things, he is absolutely right on'' insisting that the Treasury's actions have oversight, said David Kotok, chairman of Cumberland Advisors Inc., which manages about $1 billion in Vineland, New Jersey. ``The greater you empower government the greater the risk that power is abused.''

it'll add up to trillions. Trillions.

For those in need of a mega-number refresher: million is followed by billion which is followed by trillion which is followed by quadrillion. The problem is a quadrillion.

one thousand billion makes a trillion, one thousand trillion makes a quadrillion. ( and OK, quintillion follows quadrillion ).

The markets will remain up over the next two weeks because no short selling allowed on 800 stocks during that period. Taiwan, Australia, Japan have joined the US and UK in this ban.

Markets are open in Asia and the dollar is under stress - seen under the Paulson plan as going to the pyre.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 08:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

Stick with it, Nancy. One day at a time.

On such meetings do fates of nations turn.

by robertdsc on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:49:54 PM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

So what kind of legislation is Pelosi and the Democratic congress, and the Obama campaign, proposing to avoid future financial calamities like this one?

Has anyone heard a word?

by shergald on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 07:51:37 PM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 1)

Yes, Senator Bernie Sanders has a plan...not surprised it a tree falling in aforest, at least as far as the McCain Stream Media is "concerned"...

by irishdave3 (irish_dave3@yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 03:35:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

I'll believe this is more than for show when the financial services companies stop advertising their predatory loans.

by nlacey (nlacey) on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 08:17:23 PM EST

Call me naive, but... (none / 0)

This seems like the perfect opportunity for Obama to put a lock on victory, and for the Dem congress to actually come away looking like they can fight for Main St. It's highly likely that I'm missing something here, but my brain is saying:

Obama, Pelosi and Reed should agree there will be no deal until after the election. I'm assuming that, while they may not have the votes to pass anything their hearts' desire, they do have the votes to do nothing for a bit.
A basic framework for a deal should be agreed upon by the major players in the Dem infrastructure. Safeguards, accountability, transparency, blah, blah.
Obama should then step into the lead and call another one of his press conference/speech doohickeys. Similarly to the way he went straight at the Rev Wright thing, he could use the opportunity to educate the people and raise the dialogue to a new level. Not everyone understands what a bailout is or that they would be paying to keep rich people rich. Now is the time for a full frontal populist assault.

As far as I can tell, this could be exactly what the Dems needed. Might even get 60 seats out of the deal.

Okay, tell me where I left reality?

by jcheroske on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 10:05:16 PM EST

You left reality in that (none / 0)

the election is in 6 weeks, and we are in the crisis now. Even today, WaMu in Washington State is in bad bad shape, and may go down on Monday. If it goes, another big mid-major bank is likely to go.

I am not a finance person, but the pace of defaults is pretty fast, and we can't wait 6 weeks for stability.

by dataguy on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 01:19:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You left reality in that (none / 0)

Crap! I have two high-limit low-interest credit cards with WAMU. I don't use them much, but if they go under my available credit will go way down - and it is likely to affect my credit rating!

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 01:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You left reality in that (none / 0)

Is the "immediacy" notion just a tactic for Paulson and the Fed to get what they want without debate? Like no Congressional oversight? Obviously, that's what they want. It is what Jefferson was worried about: kings ruling a democracy.

by shergald on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 01:20:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

qwatz - stop her, i've heard this before (none / 1)

predition: the demos will roll over, led by steny hoyer, within 10 days.

-------- 2liberal

by 2liberal (erewhon@yahoo.com) on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 11:08:33 PM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

Who would have thought that the last big scheme by the Bush Gang cronies to loot the US Treasury would involve institutionalizing socialism, (of debt only of course, not profit), as the primary mechanism of their shameless skullduggery?

Such monumental wankery boggles the mind, and cable news loves every minute of it.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 11:47:02 PM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

No Emmy thread?

Laura Linney said her Emmy for John Adams will remind her of "all the good that Community Organizers have done for this country."

WOOHOOO!!!!

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 12:09:41 AM EST

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

I just finished watching those on dvd. I liked the description of Adams and Jefferson as the two poles of revolutionary thought, but much of it was myth-boosty. Washington was played way, way too austere.

mbr + dv + woyg

by keirdubois (keir@mybandrocks.com) on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 02:55:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan (none / 0)

Back when Coot was a kid, they called this the "protection racket" Now, we call it EXTORTION.. Sanders Plan or bust!

by irishdave3 (irish_dave3@yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 03:30:26 AM EST

Pelosi Thumbs Down on Bailout Plan | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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