Booman Tribune

Gaza - Israel Denounced by Red Cross

by Steven D
Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 08:07:56 AM EST

The events in Gaza have horrified the world. The numerous murdered and wounded civilians are bad enough. But now the Red Cross has released a statement that not only is Israel attacking innocent, starved Gazans, but that those who aren't killed in the initial assaults are being left to die slowly from their wounds, because Israeli medical units are ignoring them.

PARIS — The International Committee of the Red Cross said Thursday it had discovered “shocking” scenes — including small children next to their mothers’ corpses — when its representatives gained access for the first time to parts of Gaza battered by Israeli shelling. It accused Israel of failing to meet obligations to care for the wounded in areas of combat. [...]

In an unusually blunt criticism , the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross said it had been seeking access to shell-damaged areas in Zeitoun in the east of Gaza City since Saturday but the Israeli authorities granted permission only on Wednesday — the first day that Israel allowed a three-hour lull in the attacks on Gaza on humanitarian grounds.

The statement said a team of four Palestine Red Crescent ambulances accompanied by Red Cross representatives made its way to Zeitoun Wednesday where it “found four small children next to their dead mothers in one of the houses. They were too weak to stand up on their own. One man was also found alive, too weak to stand up. In all, there were at least 12 corpses lying on mattresses.”

In another house, the statement said, the rescue team “found 15 other survivors of this attack including several wounded. In yet another house, they found an additional three corpses. Israeli soldiers posted at a military position some 80 meters away from this house ordered the rescue team to leave the area which they refused to do. There were several other positions of the Israeli Defense Forces nearby as well as two tanks.”

Because of berms built by Israeli forces, the ambulances could not enter the area so “the children and the wounded had to be taken to the ambulances on a donkey cart,” the statement said. [...]

The statement quoted Pierre Wettach, an International Red Cross representative for Israel and the Palestinian areas, as calling the incident “shocking.”

“The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded. Neither did they make it possible for us or the Palestine Red Crescent to assist the wounded,” he was quoted as saying.

This isn't the Red Crescent, the Islamic counterpart to the Red Cross, making these charges. These are dedicated representatives of a well respected charitable organization founded in Christian countries which is not known for making hyperbolic statements or rash, unfounded accusations. That the Israeli military has been excluding The Red Cross from access to the "war zone" is bad enough. But when it did finally allow representatives of the Red Cross limited access to a small section of Gaza what they found there can only sicken and appall anyone with even a de minimis portion of moral feeling.

Small children left to die from neglect next to their dead mothers. A lack of any medical personnel on scene to attend to the wounded civilians. No ambulances, no mobile aid stations, nothing. Only donkey carts for those fortunate few to transport them to safety and to a place where they could receive medical attention. And armed Israeli soldiers everywhere letting it happen.

One can only conclude that this is the official policy of the Israeli government which mounted these attacks. I cannot believe that they were unaware of the situation in those areas of Gaza in which their troops are positioned. And there can be only one name for this policy, a heinous name, but an accurate one nonetheless: Genocide.

(cont.)

That is, the deliberate and intentional effort to "destroy, in whole or in part" the Palestinians living in Gaza. For many months Israel has blockaded Gaza. Kept from those living there needed supplies of food, medicine and fresh water. Now, it has simply accelerated its efforts to kill a significant portion of the Palestinian people in Gaza in order to obtain a political objective: the elimination of Hamas.

With embarrassing timing, the Israeli media revealed [in November 2008] that one of the first acts of Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas prime minister elected in 2006, was to send a message to the Bush White House offering a long-term truce in return for an end to Israeli occupation. His offer was not even acknowledged.

Instead, according to the daily Jerusalem Post, Israeli policymakers have sought to reinforce the impression that “it would be pointless for Israel to topple Hamas because the population [of Gaza] is Hamas”. On this thinking, collective punishment is warranted because there are no true civilians in Gaza. Israel is at war with every single man, woman and child.

Regardless of what you think of Israel and its right to self defense, it is impossible to defend their actions now. A war against everyone in Gaza, be they man, woman or child, can only be considered a crime against humanity for which Israel's political and military leaders should be charged and tried at the Hague's International Criminal Court. But, of course, that will not happen.

Why? Because the United States government still supports Israel with billions of dollars of aid, much of it advanced weaponry and other military supplies. Because the United States government refuses to recognize and deal with the duly elected representatives of the Palestinians. Because the United States government refuses to apply any pressure, diplomatic or otherwise, to reel in its ally and stop the senseless slaughter of the Palestinians, much less actively seek a negotiated agreement among all the parties in the region to end the violence for which Israel must accept its fair share of the blame.

I'd like to believe that the policy of the Us government, the government that represents me and many of you, as well, will change these policies when Obama takes office. Sadly, his almost absolute silence on the current crisis is not an encouraging sign.

President-elect Barack Obama says he is concerned about the violence in Gaza, but that it would not be right for him to speak at length about the conflict until he takes office later this month.

A television journalist pressed President-elect Barack Obama at a Washington news conference Wednesday on his reluctance to comment on the fighting in Gaza, saying that Mr. Obama's silence could be misinterpreted in the Arab world. [...]

"We cannot have two administrations running foreign policy at the same time," he said. "We simply can't do it. And so as a consequence, what am I doing is I am being briefed consistently, my national security team is fully up to speed on it. But the situation of domestic policy making and foreign policy making are two different things."

That is as phony an excuse as a three dollar bill. Obama doesn't have to wait. He can make statements now condemning the violence, and demanding Israel end its attacks. However, he has chosen not to do so for whatever reason. Those reasons I leave to your imagination and speculation, but I will say this: no reason could be sufficient justification for refusing to condemn these current outrages now that the Red Cross has come forward with its own evidence of deliberate Israeli malfeasance with regard to caring for the wounded and starving civilians in Gaza, many of them children, which its own actions have created.

I doubt one more voice calling for the President-elect to stand up and condemn the actions of Israel will do any good. Nonetheless, here is mine: Mr. Obama, please, condemn these attacks. Now. And pledge that you will employ the full power of your administration and the Federal Government to ending this rapacious assault by the forces of Israel. Failure to do so is as much a sin as the evil actions which are being perpetrated against the people of Gaza by the IDF in the name of the government of Israel.



Display:
Israel is literally fighting with the pinnacle of US military technology.

The Palestinians are literally fighting with technology a step down from the set of Mythbusters.

We're supposed to believe that the Palestinians are an existential threat to Israel, to the point that it's necessary to commit atrocities against a group held in apartheid conditions.

But then again, why are you expecting Obama to condemn what we ourselves have been guilty of for the past seven years, Steven?  Honestly?

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 08:49:19 AM EST
Actually, I have no expectations.  The AIPAC lobby is too powerful in this country.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt
by Steven D on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Bush Administration was warned that if they pushed "free elections" in Gaza, that it was very likely that Hamas would win. And they did -- because the existing government in Gaza and the West Bank was viewed as corrupt and no longer standing up for the Palestinian people.  

But because the Palestinians elected members of Hamas, and the US didn't approve, the US cut off all the aid and financial support to that new government -- in a region that was heavily dependent on that aid for its very survival.

What might have happened... if instead of condemning the results of that election and punishing the Palestinian people for voting for the "wrong" candidates, if the US, Israel and the rest of the world had actually treated the new Hamas government as the legitimate government -- and engaged in negotiation and diplomacy with them instead of declaring the election results to simply be unacceptable?  

How do you turn a "terrorist" organization into something OTHER than a terrorist organization? By pounding them and the people they claim to represent into the dust until there is no will for resistance left but abject, unconditional surrender?  (which has not worked, clearly....)  Or giving them a viable, if difficult and slow, ALTERNATIVE to violence as a means to resolving the very real issues and disputes that inspired the acts of terrorism and violence in the first place?

Terrorism is not a philosophy -- it's a tactic, usually  resorted to by a smaller, less advantaged group as a reaction against the policies and actions of a far more powerful one... usually when other tactics to resolve the dispute have failed.

And now, rather than provide any alternative path to resolving the situation, it's become more important to punish those who resorted to violence and defiance than address the real problem at the heart of it all.

The lost opportunity is the real tragedy of Gaza -- and unfortunately, more will suffer on both sides because of it.

Keith Olbermann speaks for me.

by JanetT in MD on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:14:44 AM EST
How do you turn a "terrorist" organization into something OTHER than a terrorist organization? You can't. No matter how much money and weapons you give them they will remain terrorists. Think of all of the heads of state in Israel who had been members of the Irgun.
by Cee on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Little children huddling by their dead mother.  What is this, Steven, a study in horror and criminality?  I am outraged by the actions of the IDF, the Israeli government, and the complicit and enabling action of the American government including both the incoming and outgoing administrations. Obama is weasling and it is time for this morality dodger to take a stand.  You can bet he would be quite outspoken if the tables were reversed and it was the Jews facing genocide.

This may be a moment of truth for the US civilization as well as the Israeli.  Flunk this ethical test, and the forces that rule this planet, be they some divine person or some impersonal fate, may well decide our destiny.  

As you say, we see genocide unfolding before us once again.  I agree. I think anyone with a conscience must take to the streets and demonstrate against these unholy actions that the government of Israel is perpetuating and the government of the United States is allowing by its silence, or even assisting by its resolution of congressional support.  I know I will participate in tomorrow's action at the federal building here in Syracuse.

Who are these Israeli leaders, reincarnated Nazis?

All a beaten child remembers is fear and the faces of angry parents, not why the beating was taken place. Alice Miller

by Daredevil Don on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:29:12 AM EST
Report this morning from IRIN: UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

ISRAEL-OPT: Gaza's children in the firing line

RAMALLAH, 8 January 2009 (IRIN) - Gaza's children - some 56 percent of Gaza's 1.5 million people - are struggling to survive the Israeli offensive which began on 27 December. 

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), 660 Palestinians have been killed since 27 December, including 176 children and 86 women; 2,950 have been injured, of whom 40 percent are children and 18 percent women.

When asked about the high number of child fatalities, Israeli Defence Ministry spokesman Maj Peter Lerner told IRIN: "Hamas is taking advantage of the civilian population, using them as shields."

LINK: http://www.irinnews.org:80/Report.aspx?ReportId=82250

From past experience, you can usually multiply the humber children killed in these full scale incursions by three or four to get the actual number of civilians killed, and it is much more than Israel is claiming.

by shergald on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:34:16 AM EST
Israel might be prepping its "Final Assault", but to me it's starting to look like another "Final Solution".

Israel's come full circle.  What was done to them, they're now doing to the Arab/Palestinians...

-5.75,-4.05 "The invisible hand of Adam Smith seems to offer an extended middle finger to an awful lot of people"---George Carlin

by justadood on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:40:21 AM EST
I guess the Palestinians haven't learned that work makes them free.


Recommended by Hideo Kojima
by robertdsc on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:50:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Daredevil Don on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:07:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could you expand this comment?  I don't understand your point and don't want to reply until I do.
by Heart of the Rockies on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:12:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Arbeit Macht Frei

I assume that the reference to work making them free is to the above.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:21:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Correct.


Recommended by Hideo Kojima
by robertdsc on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 04:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you both.  Glad I asked.
by Heart of the Rockies on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 07:09:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Israel and its right to self defense

I watched an IDF soldier shoot an EMS worker last night when he tried to remove a dead body from the street.

If I hear that poor little Israel (look at the latest maps) is defending themselves one more time I'm going to scream. They have lied for years about who wants to drive whom into the sea.

Read this

 We analyzed the entire timeline of killings of Palestinians by Israelis, and killings of Israelis by Palestinians, in the Second Intifada, based on the data from the widely-respected Israeli Human Rights group B'Tselem (including all the data from September 2000 to October 2008).... if Israel wants to reduce rocket fire from Gaza, it should cherish and preserve the peace when it starts to break out, not be the first to kill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-kanwisher/reigniting-violence-how-d_b_155611.html

They even provoked Lebanon a few days ago to try to draw Hezbollah into this.

by Cee on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:35:15 AM EST
Absolutely disgusting. I have generally supported Israel for years, but they now seem to be headed down the path of complete immorality. But what I want to know is what netroots folks who object to such barbarism can do about it. Petition for US aid to Israel to be suspended? Organize some sort of letter-writing campaign to congress? After eight years of Bushco doing exactly the same thing to a different group of brown people, are we just supposed to sit back and do nothing? Even if most of the US political class is in the pocket of AIPAC, is there not something that US citizens can do to say "Enough?"
by charlie on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:59:25 AM EST
we have to make it known that we can protect politicians that are willing to be openly critical of Israeli policy.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:04:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right, we have to be ready to put our money and our energy behind such politicians until we can get all private money out of the election process,  I mean the federal government finances all elections to federal office.  How else do we break the stranglehold that AIPAC has on the American political process?

All a beaten child remembers is fear and the faces of angry parents, not why the beating was taken place. Alice Miller
by Daredevil Don on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:48:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kucinich?

by shergald on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 12:13:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So sorry Shergald.

Snark should have been addressed to you.

Point and match is all your's

by SFHawkguy on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 02:51:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha!  Kucinich.  Question mark.  

Exactly.  

Point and match to you Qui.

But don't you know that you have to call Kucinich crazy to be taken seriously?  I know it seems odd but stick with me here.  I know your instinct is to support one of the few politicians standing up for what you believe in but you should be calling Kucinich all sorts of bad names for his political courage and should probably be calling for his censure.  Since he's the only one on your side everyone else will think you're just as loony as him unless you take him out politically.  I suggest you join forces with Harry Reid on go on Fox News and badmouth him as a fringe leftist unfit to be taken seriously.  

That's the only way you will be taken as "serious" in turn.  The Democrats have proved this is an essential element of winning policy victories--preemptively shoot the few people that take risks to stand up and argue your side.  

by SFHawkguy on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 02:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Donate to j-street.

Stray Roots Message Board,Thus far unmoderated! Dameocrat Blog
by StrayRoots (dameocrat@STUFFTOREMOVEpeacemail.com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 01:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By making this statement, the Red Cross is making it clear that Israel is in breach of its Geneva convention obligations. (Israel will argue that it isn't because there is no Palestinian state)

The lack of care for civilians, is  a war crime and politicians and Military leaders are all responsible.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at or about) gmail (point) com) on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:25:31 AM EST
The latest:

UN halts Gaza aid shipments after Israeli attacks on its staff

http://www.570news.com/news/in...

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - The United Nations halted aid deliveries to the besieged Gaza Strip on Thursday, citing Israeli attacks on its staff and installations hours after it said tank fire killed one of its drivers as he went to pick up a shipment.
<>
The UN said it co-ordinated the delivery with Israel, and the vehicle was marked with a UN flag and insignia when it was shot in northern Gaza. The Israeli army said it was investigating.
"The UN is suspending its aid operations in Gaza until we can get safety and security guarantees for our staff," spokesman Chris Gunness said. "We've been co-ordinating with them (Israeli forces) and yet our staff continue to be hit and killed."

The UN provides food aid to around 750,000 Gaza residents, and runs dozens of schools and clinics throughout the territory. They have some 9,000 locally-employed staffers inside Gaza, and a small team of international staffers who work there.

This report was picked up on Open Left.


by shergald on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 12:10:36 PM EST
israel has, for all intents and purposes, declared gaza  FREE FIRE ZONE.

for those unaware of what that means, it's basically anything that moves is a target and no further approval is necessary to kill it.

it was a very controversial policy during the vietnam war, and it is, by every reasonable definition, a war crime.

the sheer scope of the inhumanity that the occupants of gaza are, and have been, subjected to should result in world wide condemnation...but sadly, it will not.

the israelis have become the perpetrators of the very hatred and ethic destruction that they endured during the nazi and russian pogroms.

quite a fall for the chosen, eh.

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 05:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the israelis have become the perpetrators of the very hatred and ethic destruction that they endured during the nazi and russian pogroms.

Puts the lie to Never Again, doesn't it?

My concern is for the people of both sides. I don't care about the political part anymore. Normal people who just want to live their lives are dying and nothing is said or done about it.


Recommended by Hideo Kojima

by robertdsc on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 06:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"never again" until we say so!

Stray Roots Message Board,Thus far unmoderated! Dameocrat Blog
by StrayRoots (dameocrat@STUFFTOREMOVEpeacemail.com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 01:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do Hamas keep firing the Qassam rockets into Israel? What is the military objective? Is Hamas close to success?

Would there have been a blockade of Gaza if there wasn't any rocket fire? Would there have been an invasion?

As long as Hamas continues to organize the people of Gaza around the recapture of Israel, and as long as it acts violently against Israel, we will get another replay of the Harlem Globetrotters versus the Washington Generals.

At a certain point when you poke a bully you own your bloody nose.

by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:30:41 AM EST
Passed on by Jews sans frontiere (England) in response to your so so comment.

Reigniting Violence: How Do Ceasefires End?

As Israel and Palestine suffer a hideous new spasm of terror, misery, and mayhem, it is important to ask how this situation came about. Perhaps an understanding of recent events will afford lessons for the future.

How did the recent ceasefire unravel? The mainstream media in the US and Israel places the blame squarely on Hamas. Indeed, a massive barrage of Palestinian rockets were fired into Israel in November and December, and ending this rocket fire is the stated goal of the current Israeli invasion of Gaza. However, this account leaves out crucial facts.

First, and most importantly, the ceasefire was remarkably effective: after it began in June 2008, the rate of rocket and mortar fire from Gaza dropped to almost zero, and stayed there for four straight months (see Figure 1, from a factsheet produced by the Israeli consulate in NYC). So much for the widespread view, exemplified in yesterday's New York Times editorial that: "There is little chance of restraining Hamas without dealing with its patrons in Syria and Iran." Instead, the data shows clearly that Hamas can indeed control the violence if it so chooses, and sometimes it does, for long periods of time.

Second, and just as important, what happened to end this striking period of peace? On November 4th, Israel killed a Palestinian, an event that was followed by a volley of mortars fired from Gaza. Immediately after that, an Israeli air strike killed six more Palestinians. Then a massive barrage of rockets was unleashed, leading to the end of the ceasefire.

Figure 1. Number of Palestinian rockets fired in each month of 2008 (adapted from The Israeli consulate in NYC [pdf]) (showing a trickle of rockets during the first four months) (NOT QUOTABLE)

Thus the latest ceasefire ended when Israel first killed Palestinians, and Palestinians then fired rockets into Israel. However, before attempting to glean lessons from this event, we need to know if this case is atypical, or if it reflects a systematic pattern.

We decided to tally the data to find out. We analyzed the entire timeline of killings of Palestinians by Israelis, and killings of Israelis by Palestinians, in the Second Intifada, based on the data from the widely-respected Israeli Human Rights group B'Tselem (including all the data from September 2000 to October 2008).

We defined "conflict pauses" as periods of one or more days when no one is killed on either side, and we asked which side kills first after conflict pauses of different durations. As shown in Figure 2, this analysis shows that it is overwhelmingly Israel that kills first after a pause in the conflict: 79% of all conflict pauses were interrupted when Israel killed a Palestinian, while only 8% were interrupted by Palestinian attacks (the remaining 13% were interrupted by both sides on the same day). In addition, we found that this pattern -- in which Israel is more likely than Palestine to kill first after a conflict pause -- becomes more pronounced for longer conflict pauses. Indeed, of the 25 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than a week, Israel unilaterally interrupted 24, or 96%, and it unilaterally interrupted 100% of the 14 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than 9 days.

Figure 2. (NOT QUOTABLE) For conflict pauses of different durations (i.e., periods of time when no one is killed on either side), we show here the percentage of times from the Second Intifada in which Israelis ended the period of nonviolence by killing one or more Palestinians (black), the percentage of times that Palestinians ended the period of nonviolence by killing Israelis (grey), and the percentage of times that both sides killed on the same day (white). Virtually all periods of nonviolence lasting more than a week were ended when the Israelis killed Palestinians first. We include here the data from all pause durations that actually occurred.

Thus, a systematic pattern does exist: it is overwhelmingly Israel, not Palestine, that kills first following a lull. Indeed, it is virtually always Israel that kills first after a lull lasting more than a week.

The lessons from these data are clear:

First, Hamas can indeed control the rockets, when it is in their interest. The data shows that ceasefires can work, reducing the violence to nearly zero for months at a time.

Second, if Israel wants to reduce rocket fire from Gaza, it should cherish and preserve the peace when it starts to break out, not be the first to kill.

That article was written by Nancy Kanwisher, Johannes Haushofer, & Anat Biletzki.


by shergald on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:51:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let me add to this by quoting, from memory, what Jimmy Carter found out when he talk to Hamas leaders in Syria.

Hamas had proposed ceasefires at last a half dozen times before the last Egyptian negotiated ceasefire, but Israel refused. On two occasions, Hamas entered into a voluntary ceasefire last a month each to no avail. During this period, Israel engaged in incursions into Gaza to kill militants, and persisted in its strangulation with the siege. Weeks before the last ceasefire terminated, UNWRA relief centers shut down for lack of food and flour to distribute (they feed over half of the Palestinians in Gaza who are refugees from 1948). Likewise, many bakeries shut down for lack of flour. Malnutrituion among Gazan children had already been documented by the UN.

Israel refused as a condition of continuing the ceasefire to stop or even lessen the siege of Gaza, and was even blocking Gazan waters to prevent humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza by sea.

by shergald on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 09:59:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bob,

They are responding to the provocations of Israel like always and you STILL believe that Israel is the victim!

How long does the Holocaust enable people to persecute others?

Please stop with that nonsense about Hamas wanting to drive the Israelis into the sea. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MAPS LATELY?

Hamas leaders have said REPEATEDLY that they would accept the two state solution.

Israel is the one that doesn't want to accept it.

Palestine will be as Jewish as England is English."

-- Chaim Weizmann, first President of Israel (From Trial and Error, his autobiography)

Now I want ONE STATE!! Nothing less.

by Cee on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 02:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why didn't Israel purchase a CIWS that works instead of making one to sell abroad that doesn't and then use the inability to stop the rockets as an excuse to invade Gaza?
by JayGR on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 08:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Israel and Cheney probably have a lot of similarities.

 The one that comes to mind now is "if you don't care what anyone thinks of your actions and there is nobody big enough to stop you, then you can do what ever it is you want to do."

by Chief on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 02:30:24 PM EST
Steven: That first link, which I guess was meant to to the Red Cross statement, does not.
by peacearena on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 02:48:51 PM EST
Sorry about that.  Link to NY Times story is now added.  Haste makes missed urls.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt
by Steven D on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 at 03:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Civilians in Gaza are dying, but in the past was not so.In the last 7 years Israeli southern towns of purely civilians have been hit by heroic redeemers of Palestine, shot from the very lands that Israel gave up when they forecibly moved whole Jewish settlements out into tents and people lost jobs.Many were beaten by police for refusing. The Israeli government's reason : to give this land to the Palestinians for free showing them our good will .20,000 or more Israelis were thrown out, the terrorist moved in to the forward areas and continued to bomb only civilian targets again all told 7 years.Their aim, not bad!To kill only Israeli civilians not soldiers.Finally a truce was made for 6 months which Chams did not agree on .We are yes bombing sites and yes civilians are there, though helicopters rain down bullitens to leave the said area for 24 hours while the real perps, get killed.But they are famous the world over for generations of hiding behind civilians, taking a sniper shot, throwing a bomb and running their Holy asses to hide in a Mosque cuz their Arab Holy Islamic blood is better than other fellow Moslems.    WHY does anyone not ask why the horrible genocidical Israeli army has not conquered the whole West Bank, so much larger, richer with more natural resources and beauty along with a very weak armed forces? If we were blood thirsty we would have done them in both flying from Air Force base hitting Gaza and 20 seconds later pounding a much easier target in the West Bank. Why are many Arab countries along with Abu Mazen the leader of the Palestinian authority against Chamas?Why do we get blamed because their 7 years of rocket attacks hit our schools at 7:45-AM til 8:AM in order to hit schoolchildren? Is it possible they are trying to hit the father of a child once a soldier taking his child to school(when as the world turns its usually an older brother,sister or the mother).Their only plan is to  hit civilians. I remember the President of Egypt a few days before the cease fire was to end last month telling the Chams that they can only blame themselves if they don't re-new a cease fire and stop shooting.
THE REAL INTENT OF chamas IS TO GET YOU TO CRY FOR THE CHILDREN WHO DIED IN gaza, BUILD ON THE PROPOGANDA WHILE YOU COULD NOT GIVE 2...  ABOUT THEIR ADULTS.Show me the dead YOUR children YOUR country killed during operations or maybe actual ethnic cleansing,Serbia,Bosnia,Turkey,Greece,England and all its buddies in the GB and CW.Did I mention you modern age Belgians,Russians,Dutch,Poles, Ukrainians,Hutus,Tutsis, every African country-NO tribe against tribe .Show me a country who has not vanquished their enemies and raped and slaughtered their civilians. I have been invilved for 72 months of the Israeli infantry in the long past to be everywhere on the map over and over.Conquered in self defence against 22 Arab nations but in 72 months over 18 year period at the very front or even often inside Arab countries why wasn't I offered even one lady to rape, or a child to beat up? All they have is a nice archive of photos used over and over with the same Arab woman with her hands in the air. "Grandma, now when I aim my camera cry and throw your hands in the air, its for next months news, and next years too".The Western media and its people either hate us and try to justify anti-semitism, or their bleeding hearts (this week)are so shallow that they don't know :
in every contoversy are 2 sides.

Love other human as you regard your own needs heart of Torah means to see the other in their physical & emotional needs,looking for faults in myself ONLY.
by Kahalaan Fahdi (Ahnah.Ahref@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 01:33:37 AM EST
I don't see how killing 800 people (and counting) is going to solve your problem of getting rocket attacks coming into your southern towns.  

I'm sorry our idiotic president tried to impose democratic elections when neither he, nor you, were prepared to deal with the outcome.  But if you are going to rip up those elections, arrest the elected, set Fatah against them (when Fatah couldn't win), and blockade Gaza in frustration...do it with your own weapons.  Just don't ever ask us for anything again.  

When you use my tax dollars to kill civilians then I become a target.  I do not consent to that.  What I do does not endanger you, but what you do endangers me.  You should agree to retreat to the 1967 borders (with minor modifications) and ask for a mutual defense agreement to defend those borders.  If people rocket you at that point, the U.S. and the world will defend you.  

Keep going down the path you are on now?  Even America will eventually turn its back.  And much sooner than you think.  

by BooMan on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 02:05:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
join in the chorus of people worried by this war and mounting casualties - 700 Palestinians perished in just 10 days.

Hopefully Mr Obama's administration approach will be break from the past, Americans should understand that they have contributed a lot to the vicious cycles of hatred and violence in the Middle East.

by FarEasterner (avdavydov@yandex.ru) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 02:13:51 AM EST
"I'd like to believe that the policy of the Us government, the government that represents me and many of you, as well, will change these policies when Obama takes office. Sadly, his almost absolute silence on the current crisis is not an encouraging sign."

Well, he DID finally make a statement - a standard, tepid, neutral politician's statement that said nothing much more than "OK, I said something, alright? Now leave me alone." I did not find it in the least encouraging.

And it is not only his silence that is not an encouraging sign. Look at the people he has gathered around him as his foreign policy and national security team for the campaign, for the transition, and for his term in the White House. It looks like a roster of Israel's and AIPAC's favourites.

And look at the team of people members of his team have gathered around them. Today I heard the most shameful performance imaginable from uber-Zionist Martin Indyk, who was part of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy team for her campaign (and one of Bill Clinton's "honest brokers" in his ill-fated attempt to screw the Palestinians with that "generous offer". He lied so brazenly that he actually contradicted facts that are reported on the web site of the Israeli Ministry of Defense. It was difficult to find anything he said that was not false. And the coward refused to debate Prof Norman Finkelstein, who simply recited facts backed up with sources. He called Finkelstein a Hamas propagandist. The guy has no shame. And this is the guy who advised Hillary Clinton on Middle East policy.

Hopefully Obama will do some good things domestically, because it is going to be business as usual when it comes to the Palestinians in particular and Arabs and Muslims in general.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 at 02:42:30 AM EST


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Find textbooks at Alibris!

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Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
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