I think Reid has more than a clue about how to get the players on board and first of all it has do with helping Lincoln and Landrieu become more popular with their constituents. Lieberman will vote for the bill or have his chairmanship stripped from him...he has the advantage of being from the insurance state and he's already made it on his own, sort of. The Democratic Party needs to hit Dixie with a large amount of PR because the common folk in Dixie need to realize that they are the big winners if this debate leads to health care reform - the leaders they have been electing have been letting them die for decades without the kind of health care available to most Americans north of the Mason Dixon Line. Time for the GOP south to break up because the racial bull is really holding the middle to poor southerner from having a longer life span. I think education goes a long way to getting the health care plan passed - those folks in the south have got to become aware of what this means in terms of living longer and happier.

the opt-out with a trigger?

I'm sticking with my original prediction...

The Senate will pass a watered-down piece of crap that keeps Landrieu and Lincoln and maybe even Snowe on board, the joint conference will produce a bill that is a bit better in some respects, the final product will have nothing that resembles a real public option, the progressives in the House will fold, and Obama and Emmanuel will call this a fabulous victory for the American people.

The only question in my mind is whether taking this step positions us for tweaks and improvements to the healthcare system in the coming years.  I hope so...

I can understand the two Dems' opposition to the bill. No problem. But this procedural hostage shit is just plain fucking wrong. Full stop.

Even worse, they're going to water it down and STILL vote against it when all is said and done. Awful.

That said, can conference reports be filibustered?


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That's why the White House said a few weeks ago to Harry Reid, "I hope you know what you're doing".

What would FDR, Harry Truman, and LBJ have done?

But these statements today from Landrieu and Lincoln really put this thing up in the air. I'm starting to agree with BooMan that only reconciliation has a chance at this point. Either reconciliation, or forcing liberals in the Senate and House to pass a bill with no public option at all.

You would think that Reid had known for weeks or months that Landrieu and Lincoln would be non-starters on the public option. Of course, if he knew that, then he should have gone right to reconciliation instead of this doomed-to-fail pony show. If he did not know, then either he is doing a bad job of vote counting or Landrieu/Lincoln simply lied to him about how firm their votes were against a public option.

I really hope progressives don't compromise any more. This is total b.s. With reconciliation, imperfect as it is, we can get a real public option passed. In four years no one will care how it was passed, they will only care if it is successful.

BTW -- my prediction is they strip out the public option, and the health care bill overcomes cloture by winning Olympia Snowe's vote even while losing Roland Burris.

I thought I read that Reid had to promise Landrieu 100M in federal funds to Louisiana for her vote.

This is the biggest cluster---k, corrupt, bull I have ever seen.

For some crappy bill that won't even kick in til 2013, while 100,000 people die, while insurance companies jack up rates over the next 4 years, while big pharma raises rates for their perscriptions.

This is the most ridiculous mess I have seen in quite awhile.

So we all can clap real loud and praise democrats for passing hcr.

Please.

Can't they vote for cloture and against the bill?

This is why I conjectured it was all a planned betrayal by Reid from the start.

But we'll see. A lot happens between here and there that we know little about.

The white southerner with the rifle mounted in his pickup truck has been voting against his own best interests for a long time. The Republicans have done a great con job.

I know not, however, what it will take to enlighten him.

I still don't get this reverence for LBJ when it comes to health care. The reason we don't have Universal health care today is because LBJ not only didn't get it, he found the task too daunting and didn't even try.

Imagine if Obama had done the following. Instead of going for some kind of universal care he created a program just for the poor (Medicaid). Oh, and it only covers poor kids and their care givers. No adults.

Then when average life span was something like 70 he creates a plan that doesn't kick in till you have one foot in the grave (Medicare at 65). Oh and this program also has no prescription drug benefit, doesn't cover home health services, and also does nothing for the disabled. This was the original Medicare and Medicaid LBJ created.

It left everone in the middle out, and now in addition to paying payroll taxes for Medicare which won't kick in till 65, you have to go out and purchase private insurance as well to tide you over till you hit 65.

There isn't one person in the left blogosphere that wouldn't be screaming for his head.

And FDR, the towering Political figure of his day passed a Social Security Act that extended no benefits to blacks, hispanics, immigrants, the self-employed, clergy, railroad workers, state and local gov't workers, federal employees, the disabled, survivors and their dependents, employees of not for profits, and had NO cost of living adjustment. It was a total racist piece of SHIT. Oh and FDR also did'nt attempt health care. FDR a guy in a wheel chair passed a social security act THAT DIDN'T COVER THE DISABLED.

Am I saying FDR + LBJ were horrible? Of course not. They were great. I'M just saying that if you hold them to the same standard as Obama you should be pretty pissed at them, not saying Obama should be more like them.

I think Reid will pull a Frist and threaten the nuclear option and I think that there are 51 Democrats who will support him by that point. That will completely flip several senators IMO because it totally changes the calculus for climate change legislation, and for financial regulations.

It's actually the smart play if they want to have an effective senate. And given how Nelson's delivered a list of demands already and Lincoln has painted herself into a corner on the public option it's the best bet.

why is it called "cloture" when it's a vote to begin debate and not to close it?