Booman Tribune

Price for Health Care, Women Under Bus

by BooMan
Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:24:05 AM EST

So, it turns out that the price of passing health care reform in the House is selling women down the river. There will be a vote on the Stupak Amendment after all. And, no doubt, that amendment will pass. Private insurers will have to drop abortion coverage from plans that have it (which is most of them) in order to participate in the exchanges. The Public Option will not provide abortion coverage. People will get access to affordable health care, but they'll have to pay out of pocket for an abortion. If people want to move to a plan on the exchange, they'll lose the coverage that they currently have.

There is no guarantee that this language will survive the Conference Committee and become law, but it won't be easy to pass the Conference Report if it doesn't have the language. Once people vote for something once, they tend to get irritated if you just ignore that and remove it.

I didn't realize that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops was a political party with elected officials in Congress. Now I know.



Display:
So women are now supposed to carry all the burden of bearing and rearing children, while paying more for insurance and receiving less, getting lower pay, and then eating cat food in retirement because we didn't earn enough money during our "working" years.
by Tehanu on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:49:08 AM EST
Oh, please, stop it.  The self-righteousness and victimization syndrome of some on the left is really starting to get sickening.

Abortion in this country should always be legal, but if some people have moral difficulties with having abortion--in cases OTHER than those that threaten the life of the mother, or in instances of rape--be covered by health care reform, so be it. Stop critiquing a process that will benefit the greater good by claiming it will discriminate against a lesser number of people.

Really, the claim that women carry all the burden of bearing and rearing children is patently false.  Yet even if it weren't, if a woman doesn't want to carry the burden of having kids, THEN SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE KIDS.  Stop already with the irrationality and venomous adherence to dogma.  That's the sort of unthinking, kneejerk bullshit that used to be monopolized by the rightwing.

And for the record, I'm a liberal agnostic who has no more love for organized religion dictating our national morals than the typical commenter on this site.  I just have little patience with people of all political shapes and flavors who think that the world should conform to their own personal dictates.

by castanea on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 12:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I always enjoy the 'don't get pregnant' argument.  It's so convincing.
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 12:49:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Castanea's comment, if you read it closely, makes no sense. But of course that makes no difference to someone who is acting as an empty shill.
by dratman (rd -at- newsfare .dot.. .com.) on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 01:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, isn't bishops "who think that the world should conform to their own personal dictates" what this whole thing is about? I guess irrationality and venomous adherence to dogma is OK as long as it uses the brand of some dead guy?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."
by DaveW on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 02:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so, this is what the dems stand for. a piece of shit like stupak can f*8k every woman to the wall. the catholic church can F*8k every woman to the wall. yup, i will definitely support the dems-not!
 how many times do we hae to bend over and beg fr another one?
lets see:
abortions, privacy, health care,...
 oh screw it. i'm done.
by billjpa (billjpa@aol.com) on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:31:17 AM EST
yeah, this is about as ugly as it can get.  We have no time to rally against this amendment.  
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:43:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But, they endorsed the bill, so yah health care!!
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:47:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't realize that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops was a political party with elected officials in Congress.

Would they be any different from AFSCME or the NRA or AIPAC or Act Up or the NAACP or the Chamber of Commerce?

The Underground Railroad
by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:44:12 AM EST
The difference is that you have a bunch of politicians who let their religious leaders dictate the fine points of an amendment and abrogated their responsibility to vote on the own conscience.  This is an unholy mixing of religion and politics.  It's one thing to let your religion inform your vote, but another thing entirely to hand you vote over to the Bishops.
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:53:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe I'm missing the difference between citizens who are Bishops and citizens who are Teamsters or gun nuts or Community Activists - are some citizens more equal than others?

The Underground Railroad
by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:01:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What you are missing is that I am complaining about the politicians, not the Bishops.  They have every right to lobby, like anyone else.  But you have a big group of Dems who said upfront that they wouldn't support any language that didn't have the endorsement of the Bishops.  Show me an example of that happening with AFSCME.  
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:05:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It probably hasn't been stated in those terms, but there are many politicians with lifetime 100% ratings with the NRA or with the AFL-CIO or with ACLU. This isn't a problem because their stated beliefs are in line with these organizations; likewise I don't see a problem with someone who states explicitly that their vote is dependent upon the approval of Group X - whoever Group X may be - because it gives his/her constituents an objective standard by which to judge the politician. Donna Edwards represents a district that would want her to be in line with the AFL-CIO. John Dingle represents a district choc-full of gun nuts. John Lewis' constituents know first-hand the absolute necessity of personal liberty. Likewise, these politicians who have declared their vote to be dependent upon the approval of the Council of Bishops will be judged in short order by their constituents - if they approve then the politicians will be returned to office; if they disapprove then they'll be voted out.

Like I said, I have no problem with this - I'd have no problem with it if the group in question were bishops from The Church of Satan or American Atheists or PETA or National Socialists - the voters will voice their approval or disapproval of the politicians' votes and rationales.

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The difference is that one of our founding principles is separation of church and state. The bishops and other peddlers of mass-market fantasy enjoy de facto privileges because of their "holiness". If I call the NRA a bunch of assholes I'll get blowback from their partisans. If I call Catholics a bunch of assholes I'll get called a bigot and worse by a whole spectrum of the believers as well as the PC.

Kennedy knew he had to promise to keep religious dogma out of his governance. That wall seems to have crumbled. So, fine: just let's not hear any further outrage from you or anybody else when the Catholic Church is treated just like any other lobbyist and Catholicism is again a valid reason to attack a candidate.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And then sell the Vatican and feed the world.
by martini on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 04:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The separation of church and state is not the divorce between religious thought and public policy - it means that the state cannot establish a national religion. It was, in Jefferson's own words, to keep the state out of the affairs of the church.

In other words, an individual's motivation for proposing a policy being rooted in his/her religion does not invalidate the policy itself.

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 05:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the Council of Bishops is no more the Catholic Church than is AIPAC Israel...

The Underground Railroad
by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 05:28:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is more equal than women.
by JayGR on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:36:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"It's one thing to let your religion inform your vote, but another thing entirely to hand you vote over to the Bishops."

True, and anyone who admits to doing so should be blinded by the stark, naked light of reality during the next primary.

by castanea on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 12:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or to slightly expand the question, how are they different from Flat Earthers, Climate Change Deniers, or Anti-evolution fanatics?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."
by DaveW on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:43:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They aren't - and they are certainly free to advance their ideas and try to convince a majority of their fellow citizens to agree with them, and we are free to tell them where to go.

The Underground Railroad
by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 05:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What we have here is a literal circle-jerk of sworn celibate cross-dressers dicktating gender-specific medical policy.  Sorry, but we dealt with this particular form of stupid nationally in '73.  Stupak, et. al. need to drag their sorry asses by their hairy knuckles back to whatever damn cave they've emerged from.
by rba on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:44:33 AM EST
um, aren't these the same bishops who are getting their asses sued off for molesting children?

Does the bill provide abortion assistance in cases of rape, incest or to protect the life of a woman? or are we forced to carry the child of our rapist because???

I cannot wait for these Blue Dogs to start losing their seats and when they become unable to raise any money.

This is the biggest charade cluster---k I've ever seen in my lifetime.

by Jan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:46:04 AM EST
I think that the exceptions for rape, incest, incest will still be there.

But imagine the effing paperwork.

by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 09:49:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect the entire burden of proof would be on the woman. Rape kit and police report for a rape, naming the relative in case of incest.

I predict sooner rather than later, we won't have hardly any abortion services in this country, despite Roe v Wade.

Sickening.

by Jan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:05:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, of course.  Attempting to get reimbursed for an abortion that didn't involve rape, incest, or the life of the mother would constitute insurance fraud and a crime against the U.S. government.  
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:08:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the chosen prey of the priesthood are either the wrong gender or the wrong age to get preggers, so no problemo, right?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."
by DaveW on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:56:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I watched the Stupak gang last night in front of the Rules Committee, and despite the protestations of Hastings and McGovern, you knew this was going to happen.  Somehow, the fact that they are under the same restrictions on abortion with their own Federal Health Care Plans is supposed to make them seem like sympathetic characters in this debate; who understand how difficult it is for poor people with regard to the difficult question of abortion.  "They can buy supplemental plans just like us if the want to get an abortion", they say.  Cut me a freaking break!    

Every day, as this thing gets whittled down more and more, I really do have to wonder about its overall worth.  The "we have to pass something" group takes greater control of this debate every day.

I know it is not politically feasible to get some things right up front.  But if the end result of all this paring and "compromise" is a tremendously marginalized bill that creates a whole new set of problems and roadblocks for the people who truly need health care, how much value, in the end, does it really have?

It is just supremely frustrating that all of the "give back" has to be from one side, the side that is trying to help real people with real needs.

It is just aggravating to watch.  The people in Washington just really don't give a shit about the most marginalized people in this debate.  

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:00:54 AM EST
I agree.  It's also a bit jarring to see the Bishops win this, while they are also fighting the Republicans efforts to deny coverage to undocumented workers.  But, of course, they'll probably lose on that one.  
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:03:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Amen.
by Jan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:07:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When you aren't bold enough as leaders this is what happens.

Roosevelt was right about fear, and it has been the fear of Democrats which has led us to this crappy bill.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:08:06 AM EST
I agree with your point, Steven.  The dearth of consistent leadership on the Democratic side of the ledger for this issue is kind of staggering.

I'm afraid that the sausage factory which is now our political system and the overall petrification of empathy that has occurred amongst the majority of lawmakers during this process has shifted the debate to the mere procedural needs and political expediency rather than to creating something which works.

The Democrats have allowed the politics of this to completely overwhelm the larger purpose here.  History will have to be the judge of whether, in the final equation, this is an historic opportunity lost; or is the birth pangs of something which will eventually be embraced by this country as a giant step forward for our society.

If it is an opportunity lost, we will know soon enough.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:47:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
for Obama's condemnation of this amendment.
by Ed J on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:42:18 AM EST
I don't think Obama will make an absolute statement like that.  He will hedge until there is no room left to hedge. He always does, for better or worse.  

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"
by MikeInOhio on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:52:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just curious: any amendments to deny coverage for viagra?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."
by DaveW on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 10:58:44 AM EST
Viagra - the senator's choice? Not a chance.

When confronted by a reporter about why he voted for a bill that would allow for insurance companies to cover Viagra but not birth control pills, McCain, uncharacteristically, was clearly uncomfortable and stumped, answering that he really wasn't sure how he voted on that issue because of the numbers of votes he casts. He replied, "I don't know enough about it to give you an informed answer because I don't recall the vote... it's something I hadn't thought much about, but I will get back to you."


"I never trust people who don't laugh." Maya Angelou, March 5, 2009
by Indianadem on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:04:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would doubt that.  It is the default position of the male bastion of our political elite that they want to do anything possible to encourage the survival of their little swimmers.

There will probably even be funding for boxer shorts, since they are purported to provide a more beneficial environment for "The Boys" to survive down there.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:05:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Leaning pro - needs shoring up

Arcuri (D, NY-24)
Bean (D, IL-08)
Bishop, S. (D, GA-02)
Boswell (D, IA-03)
Butterfield (D, NC-01)
Cardoza (D, CA-18)

Costa (D, CA-20)

Doyle (D, PA-14)
Edwards, C. (D, TX-17)
Etheridge (D, NC-02)
Gordon (D, TN-06)
Kratovil (D, MD-01)
Langevin (D, RI-02)
McMahon (D, NY-13)
Michaud (D, ME-02)
Minnick (D, ID-01)

Nye (D, VA-02)

Obey (D, WI-07)
Owens (D, NY-23)
Ruppersberger (D, MD-02)
Ryan, T. (D, OH-17)
Salazar (D, CO-03)
Space (D, OH-18)

Undecided / Unknown
Biggert (R, IL-13)
Castle (R, DE-AL)

Chandler (D, KY-06)
Cooper (D, TN-05)

Cuellar (D, TX-28)

Davis, A. (D, AL-07)
Dent (R, PA-15)

Frelinghuysen (R, NJ-11)
Kirk (R, IL-10)
Neal (D, MA-02)

Pomeroy (D, ND-AL)
Snyder (D, AR-02)
Tanner (D, TN-08)
Visclosky (D, IN-01)

Leans anti-choice (probably gone, but if anyone has any relationship, worth pursuing, especially GOPers)

Altmire (D, PA-04)
Barrow (D, GA-12)
Berry (D, AR-01)
Boccieri (D, OH-16)
Bright (D, AL-02)
Capito (R, WV-02)

Carney (D, PA-10)
Donnelly (D, IN-02)
Ellsworth (D, IN-08)

Hill (D, IN-09)
Jenkins (R, KS-02)
Kildee (D, MI-05)
Lance (R, NJ-07)
Lee, C. (R, NY-26)

Lynch (D, MA-09)

Matheson (D, UT-02)
Mollohan (D, WV-01)
Ortiz (D, TX-27)
Paulsen (R, MN-03)
Perriello (D, VA-05)
Rahall (D, WV-03)
Ross (D, AR-04)
Spratt (D, SC-05)
Wilson, C. (D, OH-06)

To:                   House Offices
From:              Laurie Rubiner, Vice President of Public Policy and Advocacy
                        Planned Parenthood Federation of America
                        Planned Parenthood Action Fund

Date:               November 7, 2009

Re:                  INTENT TO SCORE:  Oppose Stupak-Pitts Amendment to the Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962)

Today, the House is prepared to consider the Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962), landmark legislation whose intent is to ensure that millions of Americans have accessible, affordable health care.  As a health care provider to millions of Americans, Planned Parenthood is keenly aware of how imperative it is that we reform our nation's health care system.  Unfortunately, women's health has been put on the line in the process.

Make no mistake about it - the Stupak-Pitts amendment, which will be made in order, is the most extreme of any anti-women's health amendment considered (all of which have been outright rejected) by the five committees of jurisdiction.  It is unquestionably a ban on abortion coverage under health care reform.

While Mr. Stupak claims that his amendment simply applies the Hyde amendment to health reform, nothing could be farther from the truth.  The Stupak-Pitts amendment would result in a dramatic new restriction on women's access to abortion coverage in the private health insurance market, undermining their ability to purchase a private health plan that covers abortion, even when they are paying for all or most of the premium with their own money. Planned Parenthood urges you to oppose the Stupak-Pitts amendment.  A NO vote on the Stupak-Pitts amendment will be considered a vote in support of women's health.

The Stupak-Pitts amendment will ban abortion coverage in the health care exchange.
The amendment offered by Reps. Stupak (D, MI-01) and Pitts (R, PA-16) would prohibit federal subsidies from going to any private plan in the health care exchange that covers abortion care.  This goes beyond current federal policy on abortion care - which is maintained by the current compromise that makes clear that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortion.  (See information further below on the language in the current bill.)

Not only does this amendment limit coverage of abortion to an unworkable, single-service rider, it imposes further barriers for health plans to offer such a rider.  This is unquestionably a ban on abortion coverage under health care reform.

Such an "abortion rider," whereby abortion care could only be covered by a single-service plan in the exchange, is discriminatory and illogical.  Women do not plan to have unintended pregnancies (or pregnancies in which a complication will arise that will require ending the pregnancy).  In fact, about half of all pregnancies are unintended.  Abortion is simply not something that women plan to insure against. An abortion rider policy also raises serious privacy concerns, as it fundamentally undermines the spirit of existing privacy law.  In addition, the barriers this amendment proposes for health plans that want to offer such a rider will ensure that few, if any, are offered.  Proposing a separate "abortion rider" represents exactly the type of government interference in the health care marketplace that conservatives purport to vehemently oppose.

This amendment would mark an unprecedented restriction on people who pay for their own health insurance.
Millions of Americans will be purchasing health insurance through the health care exchange without any federal subsidies, and millions more will be paying for the majority of the cost of coverage.  With an individual mandate in place, an effective ban on abortion coverage in the exchange would amount to the government forcing people to use their own money to purchase health insurance that does not meet their health care needs.

The Stupak-Pitts amendment represents a dramatic shift from the status quo on federal abortion policy.
The current abortion compromise applies the Hyde amendment so that it has the same effect as it currently does in Medicaid - ensuring that no federal funding may be used to cover abortion care while still allowing for coverage (17 states offer all medically necessary abortion coverage in Medicaid).   At the same time, it's important to note that the health insurance exchange is not comparable to Medicaid.  This is fundamentally a private health care system whereby individuals will be purchasing plans from private insurance companies, in large part with their own money. The Stupak-Pitts amendment dramatically changes federal policies related to abortion coverage and undermines the principle of abortion neutrality in health care reform.

Furthermore, the Stupak-Pitts amendment goes beyond its stated purpose of restricting abortion coverage in health care reform and targets access to abortion as well, by gutting the neutrality of existing conscience protections, which currently protect both those who refuse to provide and those who choose to provide abortion care.

We're extremely disappointed that some members have decided to turn the health care reform debate into an abortion debate, and we take very seriously all efforts to impose a ban on abortion coverage in the health care exchange - which would mark a dramatic departure from current coverage in the private marketplace and therefore violate the first tenet of health care reform that no one lose the coverage they currently have.  Women won't stand for this.

Below is more information about the overall bill and the current abortion compromise language.  Please don't hesitate to contact me or any of PPFA's legislative representatives (Jacqueline.Ayers@ppfa.org / 202-973-4976; Alicia.Dupre@ppfa.org; 202-973-4832; and Emily.Stewart@ppfa.org / 202-973-4839) with any questions.

*******

Background and Talking Points on H.R. 3962

The current abortion compromise language ensures that neither pro-life nor pro-choice agendas are advanced in this bill.
The status quo on federal abortion policy is maintained.  (A detailed summary of the abortion compromise language in H.R. 3962 is attached).

Health care reform is about increasing access to quality, affordable care.  It should not be a platform for resolving or litigating issues like abortion.  It assures that access to abortion is neither mandated nor prohibited, and it clearly states that no federal funds - neither tax nor cost-sharing credits - can be used to pay for abortion care.  It also sets up a stringent process to ensure segregation of funds, whereby health plans must demonstrate that federal funds are not used to pay for abortions using an actuarial value process set up by the Secretary.  In fact, this process is more stringent than in Medicaid, where there are no federal rules around how states must demonstrate separation of funds if they cover abortion under the state Medicaid programs.

If the language in H.R. 3962 makes any concessions, it is to pro-life Americans, who - for the first time - will be guaranteed access to health plans that do not include abortion coverage, unlike in the current marketplace.  In the current marketplace, the majority of private health insurance plans cover abortion care, and some consumers only have access to plans that offer abortion coverage.  It is important to note that under no instance can health insurance companies be forced to provide coverage of abortions.

In addition, the compromise language also provides new protections for facilities that refuse to provide abortion care by stipulating that health plans participating in the exchange cannot discriminate based on a provider or facility's unwillingness to provide, pay for, provide coverage of, or refer for abortions.  Because it is "abortion neutral," the language also provides similar protections for abortion providers.  The Stupak-Pitts amendment strips the protection for providers who are willing to provide abortion care but maintains the protection for providers who are unwilling to provide abortion care.

Opponents have also consistently failed to highlight that the current compromise stipulates that state laws regarding abortion coverage are not pre-empted.  Therefore, if citizens of any given state do not want abortion covered at all through private health insurance plans, they have the option of pushing for further restrictions in their state.

The compromise in the bill does more to ensure separation of federal funds from private dollars than any other existing policy, including those that are not related to abortion.  For instance, in their zeal to undermine this bill, opponents have conveniently overlooked the precedent established through Charitable Choice policies.  These policies very clearly accept similar separation requirements as legitimate--otherwise, thousands of religious charities that receive federal financial assistance would be in violation of the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution.  In fact, existing Charitable Choice law stipulates that federal funds that indirectly go to religious organizations (through a genuine and independent private choice of a beneficiary via a voucher, certificate, coupon, or similar mechanism) do not need to be separated at all.   (See 69 Federal Register 42586; 45 CFR Parts 74, 87, 92, and 96).  While the same could have held true under health care reform (where individuals are receiving a subsidy), the compromise requires strict separation between private premiums and the federal funds beneficiaries receive under health care reform.  In short, opponents are pushing for a double standard.

Recent polling by the Mellman Group confirms that there is widespread public support for this compromise - particularly among traditionally moderate and conservative groups of voters.  The language is supported by 64% of anti-abortion voters, 61% of Republicans, and 58% of Catholics.  This is greater than support among pro-choice voters (47%) and Democrats (47%), who are concerned it already goes too far.

The bottom line is that women must not lose benefits under health care reform, and the current compromise language ensures that women can access the care they need without undermining current abortion restrictions in federal law.

PLANNED PARENTHOOD URGES YOU TO OPPOSE THE STUPAK-PITTS AMENDMENT.

*******

Leading Editorials Have Opposed the Stupak-Pitts Amendment and Similar Proposals
An editorial in USA Today said(11/2/09):
"[The Stupak amendment] goes too far. It would mark a broad new expansion in the effort to restrict access to abortion. Nearly 90% of private health insurance policies now offer abortion coverage, and almost half of women with private insurance have it. But women covered under the new system would have to find supplemental insurance or pay out of pocket for an unanticipated procedure that can cost from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars, depending on complexity. For anyone unable to afford it, this would amount to a de facto ban."
[http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/11/debate-on-reproductive-rights-our-view-abortion-foes-seek-to- use-health-plan-to-curb-access.html]

An editorial in the New York Times said (10/1/09):
"Conservative critics of pending reform bills want to prohibit the use of tax subsidies to buy any health insurance policy that covers abortion. Some want to require women to buy an extra insurance "rider" if they want abortion coverage, an unworkable approach given that almost no one expects to need an abortion, few women would buy the rider and, therefore, few insurance companies would even offer it."
[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/opinion/01thu1.html?ref=opinion]

An editorial in the LA Times said (11/6/09):
 "The real goal of abortion opponents isn't to maintain the status quo. It's to extend federal prohibitions into private pocketbooks. By restricting coverage offered through the exchange, they hope to make abortion coverage so unattractive that insurers eventually stop offering it in the market for individual and small-group policies."
[http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-ed-health6-2009nov06,0,1334958.story]

An editorial in The St. Petersburg Times said (11/5/09):
"Contrary to the claims of Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., who has been leading the antiabortion effort, the Capps amendment would not expand federal funding for abortion. Instead it would establish some basic principles to reflect the current health insurance landscape in which nearly 90 percent of private plans offer abortion coverage."
[http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/preserving-abortion-coverage/1049437]

An opinion editorial by Kathleen Kennedy Townsend in Newsweek said (11/6/09):
"Unfortunately, this reasonable approach is under attack from some Roman Catholic bishops who object even to the use of private dollars for women to exercise their conscience. They are determined to make abortion illegal, even if it derails health-care reform entirely--no matter the cost to women and children--and regardless of whether it would actually have any impact on the number of abortions in this country. (In fact, comprehensive health care could well reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and subsequent abortions.) In politics, this is called using abortion as a "wedge" issue. And it's simply not right."
[http://www.newsweek.com/id/221551]

by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:28:05 AM EST
nice of them to send this out on Saturday. Anyoen with a brain could tell them that no one's in the office on Saturday, and the voicemails are typically full, as they currently are.  bit of a FAIL here.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??
by brendan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the deal was made late last night.  
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 12:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Boo, You really didn't know that the Catholic Church has pretensions to rule the world and acts everywhere as a shadow political organization. I'm not trying to be funny. This is so! It always has been. Mussolini reinstated the Catholic Church's status as an independent entity in the Vatican after the Italian revolution had compoletely incorporated the Vatican into Italian territory in about 1870. After the war, the U.S. (you know, the separation-religion-and-state empire of god on earth) opted to accept Mussolini's decision and supported the Italian post-war government's continuation of the Vatican as autonomous. Maybe the V.S. even insisted on it. Well, guys, here we are today. This decision against abortion funding is barbaric. Medieval. It chokes me.
by Quentin on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:48:58 AM EST
question: is erectile dysfunction and other men's sexual health issues covered?

and again, I told you so.  I told you since DAY 1 and all anyone said was "brendan's a cynic."

I wasn't a cynic. I was a REALIST.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:54:07 AM EST
told me what?  Does this have anything to do with my case of beer?
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that we're  not getting anything good.

and that beer sailed last week, when they decided there wouldn't be a robust, strong public option.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 11:59:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
what?  Did I EVER say that there would be a robust public option in the final bill?  Maybe I did, but my thinking was always that NO public option would be in the bill unless it was done in reconciliation, and that a non-robust public option might pass under regular order, but only if it was put in in the Conference Committee.  
by BooMan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 12:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
brendan:
like I always say, we'll see.
you get a case of beer if we get health care reform,with a robust public option available on day one.
it's a one-sided wager I will be happy to lose.

politico:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi counted votes Thursday night and determined she could not pass a "robust public option" -- the most aggressive of the three forms of a public option House Democrats have been considering as part of a national overhaul of health care.

confirmed by NYT:

Ms. Pelosi said the public plan, which she prefers to call a "consumer option," would compete with private insurers. But the speaker was apparently unable to muster the votes needed for the "robust" liberal version of a public plan, which she has repeatedly said would save more money for consumers and the government.

You wanted a defintiion of "day one" to include 2013. you made no such specifics for the robust public option, which I always said had to be in the final bill.

I'm really sorry. It was a bet i wanted to lose.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 03:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re separation of church and state, let's really apply this principle by removing all tax exemptions for property owned by any religious group.  Let the bishops and all their religious kin of whatever denomination, pay taxes like the rest of us.  Even on the land that their churches and rectories sit on.  Why should our government help these bigots in  any way whatsoever?

Be bold, for boldness conquers everything.
by Dongi 2 on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 01:29:35 PM EST
Well, logic would dictate that if we have real separation, religious institutions should be exempt? No? But as they have decided to be political institutions, that may no longer apply. I'm sick to death of these theocrat assholes of every stripe playing the bait and switch game -- either they're separate or they ain't.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."
by DaveW on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 02:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know actually. Frankly if eventually the ONLY thing people have to pay out of pocket for is an abortion that is probably a win.

Of course we're far from there, but things could be worse, which is about the best you can say for it.

________
The Raptor of Spain: A Webserial
From Muslim Prince to Christian King: An Alternate History

by MNPundit on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 at 05:13:06 PM EST


Display:
Go to: [ Booman Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]
Menu
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password





Find textbooks at Alibris!

NOTE: Overstock bests Amazon's prices and is "blue."

THE BOOKS WITH "BUZZ":
______________

Senator Edward M. Kennedy tells his extraordinary personal story:

True Compass: A Memoir
by Edward M. Kennedy.

Read Barack Obama's vision for America:

The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream
by Barack Obama

Boran2 and maryb2004 recommend:

The Big Over Easy: A Nursery Crime
by Jasper Fforde

Must-have information for all presidents-and citizens-of the twenty-first century?

Physics for Future Presidents: The Science behind the Headlines
Richard A. Muller

rae recommends:

Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire
by Morris Berman.

On BooMan’s shelf:

Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
by Doris Kearns Goodwin

This looks interesting:

Adventure Divas
by Holly Morris

Here’s a good one from
Elizabeth Gilbert:

Eat Pray Love
by Elizabeth Gilbert

"Crash" * Best Motion Picture, Academy Awards * Only $11.79 at Overstock * 2006 SAG Winner, Best Ensemble

Check out
Powell's new section:
NEW FAVORITES

Selected new arrivals at 30% off

Recommended by Indianadem and ejmw:
The Conscience of a Liberal
by Paul Wellstone

From northcountry’s bookshelf:

The New Golden Age:
The Coming Revolution Against
Political Corruption and Economic Chaos
by Ravi Batra

A novel about contractors in Iraq from the woman that runs The Spy That Billed Me:

Outsourced: A Novel
from RJ Hillhouse.


Great Deals
----- * ^ * -----

Find mystery novels by Nancy Pickard ("Kansas")



Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy US Power by Phyllis Bennis (interviewed on DN!)


Featured by Keith Olbermann, New (Powell's Sale): Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum (whose other books merit serious consideration)


"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen


The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review


BT's all-time best seller:

PERMACULTURE:
A Designers' Manual

$79.95 * Sale: $59.95


Unequal Sisters: A Multicultural Reader in U.S. Women's History (Third Edition)


The Undercover Economist: Exposing Why the Rich Are Rich, the Poor Are Poor And Why You Can Never Buy a Decent Used Car!


The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl
by Timothy Egan


Green Press Initiative
----- * ^ * -----


Journalistas: 100 Years of the Best Writing and Reporting by Women Journalists by Eleanor Mills * NYT review


Bury Me Standing: the Gypsies & Their Journey


1491: New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus



Brokeback Mountain
by Annie Proulx
----- * ^ * -----
Check out Powell's
"At The Movies"


Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World by Noam Chomsky (Power & Terror: Post 9-11 Talks)


The Price of Privilege:

How Parental Pressure and
Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of
Disconnected and Unhappy Kids

by Madeline Levine


Save 35-70% on
name brand clothing,
footwear, and outdoor gear
at SierraTradingPost.com

:





We listened to PEN American Center's "State of Emergency" and found 1940s books by Curzio Malaparte only at Alibris. (Selection (MP3) excerpted from "The Skin.")

Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
Banned Books * Are you a fan of Film Noir, Art House, Documentaries or Hong Kong Action? * Searching for a long-lost children's book or a first printing of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue on vinyl? Find it at Alibris!

:
:
www.Patagonia.com


Listed on BlogShares

© 2009 Booman Tribune