Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

On the Stimulus

by BooMan
Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:37:30 PM EST

The details are still sketchy, but here's what we know about what was cut from the House version of the stimulus bill.

In addition to the large cut [$40 billion] in state aid, the Senate agreement would cut nearly $20 billion proposed for school construction; $8 billion to refurbish federal buildings and make them more energy efficient; $1 billion for the early childhood program Head Start; and $2 billion from a plan to expand broadband data networks in rural and underserved areas.

Plus...

Even Mr. Obama’s signature tax cut for middle-class Americans was scaled back as part of the deal. Under the new plan, tax credits of up to $500 for individuals and $1,000 for couples would begin to phase out at lower income levels than first proposed, saving the government $2 billion.

Yet, some spending was added, including about $30 billion in consumer tax cuts to encourage the purchase of homes and cars, and $6.5 billion to the National Institute of Health. As a result, the overall cost of the Senate package appears to be roughly the same as the House version (approximately $820 billion).

I don't think there is any question that the House version is better and would be more effective as a stimulus. Once the Senate bill passes and goes to conference, the House negotiators will look to restore as much as they can, but they'll have to be careful not to blow up the deal with Specter, Snowe, and Collins. We should expect the final product to be a slight improvement over the Senate version.

The compromise legislation is unpopular on both the right and the left. That's the nature of a compromise. The important question is whether or not the stimulus bill will stop the economic free-fall we're experiencing. If it does, then this bill did what it was created to do. If it doesn't, we're in deep trouble because there is a limit to how much borrowing this country can do if the economy is not responding.

On the Stimulus | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: On the Stimulus (4.00 / 2)

Boo, yesterday you said the "compromises" are about getting votes beyond the number needed to pass. How can you calmly accept that the Senate has across the board eliminated the most effective stimulus items, every one of which happens to be a "liberal" priority? Have you changed your mind on whether there's really a problem passing basically the House version?

If this is just some more "reaching out" crap, it's getting hard to keep on hoping/expecting real change from the new bosses. I can't believe the Dems couldn't get pretty much whatever they want if they're willing to play hardball for a change. If this is an indications of the future, it looks more and more like this obsession with "bipartisanship" will prove to be Obama's tragic flaw flaw that finally brings him down.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 03:24:12 PM EST

The Senate bill is MUCH worse (none / 0)

They basically took out $100 billion of spending to make room for $100 billion in tax cuts (the AMT fix for $70 billion, the auto/vehicle tax credits).

I don't think these tax cuts will create any jobs. The AMT fix, which really belongs in different legislation, was just a bait and switch way for the centrists to boost the cost of the package so that they could go in and "fix it" by cutting spending. The tax credits for vehicles will be a nice boost for folks who were gonna buy cars/houses anyway. The jobs-producing impact of these are minimal.

Meanwhile, they cut some of the items that will create or save the most jobs. In my opinion, the aid to states was the most important part of the stimulus bill. My dad is working part time as a CA public school teacher and will probably lose his job as the state cuts jobs. Collins/Nelson are basically putting my dad out of work with these cuts.

So, I hope the package is fixed in conference and that we jam it down the Senate's throat. Being held hostage by luddite Republicans is not the way to fix the economy.

by existenz on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:09:44 PM EST

Re: The Senate bill is MUCH worse (none / 0)

Like he says, the details are sketchy, but the overall problem is clear: message magnification.

Look at what Think Progress and Digby have to say.

by public takeover on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 06:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Some Repubs are signing on because they took OUT tax cuts for the middle class?

by Bob In Pacifica on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:11:41 PM EST

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

No. They took out some of the tax cuts for the poor that don't income taxes.

by BooMan on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

"The important question is whether or not the stimulus bill will stop the economic free-fall we're experiencing. If it does, then this bill did what it was created to do. If it doesn't, we're in deep trouble because there is a limit to how much borrowing this country can do if the economy is not responding."

It won't, of course. We've been losing jobs at the rate of 500,000+ a month for several months in a row now. The package itself is far too small, you might as well be throwing a softball at an oncoming train.

The U-6 unemployment figures are up to 15.4% now. That means there are already counties and entire states (Michigan, RI, possibly California) approaching the 20% unemployment/underemployment mark. The best the stimulus can do is prevent a total crack-up when the economy collapses.

But it will still collapse. The rate of decay has picked up at a frightening speed, possibly beyond the capacity to stop it. Systemic breakdown is coming. We've gained roughly 5.5% in the U-6 rate since this started. At the current rate of job loss, we'll be at national 20% U-6 by summer with another 3 million jobs gone on top of the 3.5 million already lost.

Too many holes in the system. Too many broken links in the chain. Too many already on the edge.

Too late to save the economy.

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:30:24 PM EST

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Strips out half of renewable energy funding while leaving in $ 50 Billion for nuke power. Ever wonder who really writes our national energy policy..

by wildrez on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:41:20 PM EST

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Dick Cheney

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 09:19:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

My fear is that this stimulus isn't going to put a dent in the problem, thus enabling the Republicans to say, "See, we told you this wouldn't work."

by eagleye on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 02:02:54 PM EST

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Agreed. They attack the original bill then blame the dems when the watered down version does not work.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 02:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

I don't understand why no one seems to care that the government is BORROWING all of this money and that it will have to be paid back with INTEREST. Who do you think is going to pay back all this money? Mommy and Daddy? Do you think this is some school loan or credit card that you can declare bankruptcy on? Do you have any idea who you're borrowing this money from? Or what they'll do when you can't make the vig? Hello. Wake up. This isn't a video game. It's real money.

by Coco (gone@yahoo.com) on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 02:43:45 PM EST

Re: On the Stimulus (4.00 / 2)

The Debt will be inflated away (buy gold, bury coins). We are going the way of the Weimar Republic. They deliberately inflated to get out of WWI war reparations. The resulting destruction of the middle class led to street fighting between Nazis and Communists and the destruction of Democracy. I wonder if the destruction of the yeoman farmers and workers in the Roman Republic, caused by the massive influx of cheap slaves from foreign wars, were what caused the the street fighting between Left (Populares) and Right (Optimates) and the resulting destruction of the Republic.

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 09:28:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 1)

We are 11.5 trillion in debt now. If the economy isn't jump started we will continue to decline in a vicious deflationary cycle. The ONLY time deficits should be tolerated is when the country is in financial crisis. Should we leave our kids 12.5 trillion in debt and a growing economy or 11.5 trillion and a depression?
The taxcuts of the last 8yrs added 5 trillion to the national debt. We did not need them there was no reason to bankrupt the nation and our children.
I'd love to have the 6.5 trillion dollars that Reagan and Bush squandered and gave to the corporations or went for Chinese toys. But we don't because many people voted for those assholes and cherished their toys more then their children or their country. Its like Biden said paying taxes is patriotic. there are very few patriots on Wall Street unfortunately.
I agree with Zandar1 we are screwed anyway the compromise will not work our last chance is going down the drain.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 02:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Yeah, I agee with you guys, too. The stimulus was an attempt to stave off the Tsunami until the seawall was rebuilt. But the seawall isn't going to be rebuilt and the tsunami will not be staved off long enough.

But, in the end, the collapse of the US market economy and it's tele-civilization may be the best thing to happen to the world since the collapse of the Confederacy.

by public takeover on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 06:22:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Coco were you playing with Chinese made toys and voting Republican? Just wondering if the last 5 TRILLION was ok albeit under a different political party. Democrats have not bankrupted this nation the REPUBLICANS and like minded TRAITORS have bankrupted this nation.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 03:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

Everything seems to be speeding up. The economy is tanking faster, the empire is crumbling more quickly, the Republican are regaining legislative influence more swiftly, suffering is spreading quicker and wider than ever before and Obama is demonstrating more and more that while he can campaign with the best of them his governing abilities leave much to be desired.

Is this guy really a wuss? All talk and no action? We shall soon see and what he is made of also cuz this economic-financial-political crisis approaches like a runaway freight train. Let's see if this apostle of change can change his course in time. I sure hope so.

Suppose you scrub your ethical skin until it shines, but inside there is no music, then what? Kabir

by Dongi 2 on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 at 05:05:48 PM EST

Re: On the Stimulus (none / 0)

The republican party is doing everything it can to make sure the Stimulus Package is a failure. If they are as successful at it as I think they're going to be, they should realize this will have their name on it. In this current climate, it will be the absolute death of the the less than Grand old Party!

On political conservatives: "I was so shocked I nearly dropped the Bible I was using to help me masturbate into my gun." Bill Maher

by lyvwyr101 (greatbear215@aol.com) on Sun Feb 8th, 2009 at 03:30:25 PM EST

On the Stimulus | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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