Booman Tribune

Open Thread

by BooMan
Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 09:45:51 PM EST

You can read about the making of this video here.



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by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 01:39:33 PM EST
A 'must read'.
by ask on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 02:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for that link Hurria.

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi
by chocolate ink on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 03:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What charmers!
(BTW: shergald posted this in the afternoon)
by ask on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:17:46 PM EST
I was surprised at how drunk people were at 10pm.  Do the bars close early in Jerusalem?
by BooMan on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I made it about 1/3 of the way through that piece of shit before stopping. That's some pretty fucked up shit.
by PsiFighter37 on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:20:57 PM EST
you missed the amusing part at the end.
by BooMan on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chabad rabbi aims to clarify remarks on killing civilians


Rabbi Manis Friedman has come under intense criticism for appearing to call on Israel to massacre Palestinians.  A prominent Chabad rabbi is seeking to clarify remarks in which he renounced "Western morality" and seemed to call on Israel to massacre Palestinian civilians.

"The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way," wrote Rabbi Manis Friedman in the current issue of Moment magazine. "Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)."

Friedman's comments were a response to the question "How Should Jews Treat Their Arab Neighbors?" The question was posed to rabbis of several denominations, and the Friedman response was identified as "Chabad."

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/06/02/1005579/chabad-rabbi-clarifies-remarks-on-killing-civilians

Galilee communities: We're not racist, we just don't want Arabs:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090527.html

Shulamit Aloni / Israel is controlled by religious fanaticism

snip In the letter, Rothschild explains why he refuses to support the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel. He writes that he "should view with horror the establishment of a Jewish colony pure and simple; such a colony would be Imperium Imperio; it would be a Ghetto with the prejudice of the Ghetto; it would be a small petty Jewish state, orthodox and illiberal, excluding the Gentile and the Christian."

Nevertheless, and despite phenomena like Kahane, the hope prevailed here over the years that Rothschild's harsh vision would prove false; that Israel would indeed "ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex," and "guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture," as stated in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State.

Time has passed and many heirs to Kahane have arisen - not only among a greedy and savage multitude but also among "the public's chosen representatives" in the Knesset and government. The latter are busy preparing blatantly racist laws and sending armed police to thwart Palestinian-initiated international cultural events because the regime believes the Arabs of the Land of Israel, the native Palestinians, are not worthy of being called human beings. According to the writers of these laws, the Arabs are certainly not entitled to human rights, not to mention a cultural and intellectual life, and never mind property, land and a home, because thousands of years ago God promised this land to Abraham and his seed.

Most regrettably and disgracefully, everything that Lord Rothschild predicted is coming to pass in our time. snip

For 42 years we have been occupying, oppressing and stealing lands that are not ours. To be free in our land do we need to become thieving Cossacks, uprooters of trees, burners of fields and harassers of women, the elderly and the very young? "We have this land, we have it," goes the song, but what should have been said is "We have the power, we have it, we have the money, we have it, and we are allowed, we are," to starve an entire population, imprison it and annihilate it using air strikes, cluster bombs and white phosphorous. Because we are the lords of the land and God has chosen us to rule. For the shame of it.

"A unique people," wrote David Ben-Gurion. Alas, for that uniqueness. Instead of a Jewish and democratic state they have delivered us a Jewish state controlled by religious fanaticism, one that maintains the purity of the race. They have delivered a democracy in the most primitive sense - not the preservation of democratic values but rule by the demos, the populace that is dictating the transformation of Israel into a totalitarian ethnocracy.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090366.html

Banned but hopefully not forgotten.
by Mattes on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:54:50 PM EST
To be fair, it wouldn't be hard to find a bunch of drunk college-age kids anywhere in the world and assemble a short video full of highly offensive speech about any group you like. I'm pretty sure I could assemble a similar video that depicts the "American street" as hating [insert political leader here] and wanting to oppress [insert "them" du jour here]. That most of the people in the video are, in fact, Americans, says more about the American right than it does about the Israeli right. That they are mostly very young people is even less compelling: the narcissism, shallowness, and lack of empathy among the young is why they are used preferentially as soldiers and concentration camp guards.

I'd go on at length about the obvious, loathsome dishonesty involved in trolling dive bars for less than ideal specimens of humanity and implying that the represent the larger society from which they come, but I can only assume that everyone here has already seen The Eternal Jew and recognizes the technique.

I'm no friend of Israel -- I do not accept its purported right to exist and think that the European colonists should be expelled from Palestine -- but this kind of base, transparent, and frankly unethical propaganda piece makes me ashamed to be a member of the American left audience it is aimed at. The only thing missing is the Prague cemetery.

Let's please try, as we battle monsters, not to become monsters, shall we?

by corvus on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:26:21 PM EST
Frankly, I think we all know the limitations of such sampling techniques.  Jay Leno's man on the street interviews are a case in point.  The video is instructive for a simple reason.  That type of sentiment towards our president is not something you would see in this country wherever you might  find Jews gathered together to have a few beers.  It's surprising to see any kind of collective contempt for Obama from college students.  

It shows that there is some kind of disconnect and demonstrates that achieving peace will be extremely difficult.  

by BooMan on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 12:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's surprising to see any kind of collective contempt for Obama from college students.

Ever heard of the College Republicans? About the only thing they haven't done in recent years is burn crosses. At least not as an official function; I can't vouch for what their members do on their own time. And given their obnoxiousness, I'd be willing to bet that if you walk into a bar with more than a handful of College Republicans, you'll find a bunch of them and not much of anyone else.

Would you likely find a bunch of young right-wing American Jews inside the United States having a few beers and being willing to say things like that on camera? Probably not, but that almost certainly has a lot more to do with social norms and their minority status than it does with sentiment.

Look, I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of bigots in Israel -- Zionism is inherently racist. All I'm saying is that the people who produced this video had a point to prove, and they specifically and selectively sought out evidence to support it and presented it in such a way to create the impression that it was a representative sample of Israelis as a whole when by its very nature it cannot be. The same technique could be applied to make it look like everyone in Israel is in full agreement with Uri Avnery. It doesn't show anything; it's pure propaganda.

by corvus on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 02:50:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think they presented it as a representative sample at all.

How interesting thought that that one bimbo didn't even know who Netanyahu was.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 04:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think she repeated it as "Benjamin Yahoo"...
by ask on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
a political science major who really knows her shit...
by BooMan on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:47:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh yeah - I forgot that she presented herself as a political science major.
by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 01:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well you could look at the bigger picture of the racist discrimination Ethiopian Jews face and draw a fair conclusion from that.

If this video is indicative of anything it's indicative of a comfort level with public racism that I doubt they'd have if they were in Manhattan or Chicago.

by JayGR on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 12:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or the rich history of racism against "Oriental" Jews that dates all the way back to the beginning of Zionism. And this despite the fact that Arab Jews, particularly Iraqi Jews, have a far more credible claim to descent from the Hebrews than most European Jews do.
by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 02:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh yes, the Khazar myth. You do know, don't you, that genetic sequence studies over the past decade have conclusively disproven that and equally conclusively established the genetic relationship of the Ashkenazim to middle eastern Jews and other ME gene pools?

The Jewish claim to Palestine is illegitimate because there is no ancestral right to land, not because the ancestry is fabricated. I have absolutely no right to steal land from the current inhabitants of Denmark just because I have Viking ancestors -- even if my Viking ancestors probably would have considered such an action entirely legitimate, unlike them, I am not an iron age savage. Nowadays, we just buy land from people who are willing to sell it.

(To my great surprise, when my mother had her mitochondrial DNA sequenced this year, we discovered that we, too, have Ashkenazi ancestry, along with the expected English, Irish, Scots, and Scandinavians. I remain completely uninterested in settling in Palestine, however.)

by corvus on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 03:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't make assumptions, Crow. I was not referring to the Khazar business, nor do I give a damn about it whether it is factual or not. It has never held so much as a scintilla of interest for me. A decent study of Zionism shows that it is utterly irrelevant in the Zionist context whether a given Jew, or any of the Jews for that matter has a genealogical connection to the Hebrews, and even if one could prove that Ashkenazi Jews originally came from Mars rather than the Middle East it would not be useful to delegitimize their claim to Palestine. The Zionist claim to Palestine is illegitimate, as you pointed out, whether or not they have real ancestral ties to the Hebrews. And in any case do adherents to the Khazar theory seriously believe that if their lack of ancestral connection could be proven Ashkenazi Jews would pack their bags and leave Israel? The Khazar bit is, at best, a waste of time.

The Iraqi Jewish population are descended from the Hebrews who were taken as slaves to the region during Babylonian times, and their bloodline is relatively pure. Their ancestral connection is virtually undeniable. European Jews, on the other hand, can make no such claims. Therefore, it is very ironic that European Jews are so racist toward Iraqi and other "Oriental" Jews.  

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 04:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you recreated a Viking ship and sailed there with a crew clothed in animal hides and bearing large axes in an attempt to take Denmark I would back you 100% just for the lolz!
by JayGR on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 10:16:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh. I think the real challenge would be convincing the locals that we were indeed serious and not just another bunch of Viking reenactors. Then we would march over their prone, belly-laughing bodies to victory!
by corvus on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 05:07:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not only is the racism shocking, but it is amazing that what are obviously young Americans are so willing to have it  put on film.  Apparently, travel beyond our borders has emboldened them to such an extent that they feel free to say things that likely would not be verbalized here.

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-
by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:31:28 AM EST
You know, they're so far from home that video or other media can't make it back...or something.
by ask on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:58:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Out of the mouth of babes.

Banned but hopefully not forgotten.
by Mattes on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:57:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And I wonder of American non-profits paid for those trips [Aliyah], when that tax money could have stayed here.

Banned but hopefully not forgotten.
by Mattes on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:57:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm guessing that they were on one of those "birthright Israel" free trips provided to young Americans in the hope of luring them into moving to Israel. They sure are attracting high quality potential new Israelis!
by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 01:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe they are attracting exactly what they want.

Banned but hopefully not forgotten.
by Mattes on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 03:08:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Witnessing the unfettered hostility & aggressiveness I can't help but wonder if similar actions in years past is what bred Arab hostility towards Jews prior to the founding of Israel.

It is not difficult to picture these ignorant thugs being part of the Irgun.

by sidewinder on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 10:35:16 AM EST
I think the Irgun spread hostility through their actions more than their attitude.  Mainstream Zionists certainly shared an attitude of entitlement that Arabs would find naturally distasteful.  But mainstream Zionists also shared with the Arabs a distaste for the tactics of the Irgun.  
by BooMan on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 10:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the leaders of Irgun ended up becoming the leaders of Likud.

The the terrorist acts of Irgun DID get the Brits out of Palestine.

Banned but hopefully not forgotten.

by Mattes on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:59:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As someone who's spent a ridiculously punishing time reading posts and comments om anti-Obama blogs of the wingnut/PUMA variety, I can't say I find this all that shocking.
by Rumproast on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 01:36:48 PM EST
What I don't get is the lame defense that "alcohol lowers inhibitions", which is the exact same lame defense Bay Buchannon is offering for Marcus Epstein physically assaulting a black woman while spewing racial epithets.
I'm pretty sure we've all been drunk once or twice in our lifetimes, and I'm equally sure that the vast majority of us haven't been turned into klan members by the magical powers of demon rum. It doesn't work like that, and it's pretty sad that people use something that is a damn near universal experience as a nonsensical defense for the indefensible.
by Grendel72 on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 01:09:58 AM EST


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